DSM named to KIA General

[shrapneldude]

Having been "stung" in this way, I assure everyone on this forum that I have no interest in passing the screw onto anyone else. I will not sell this medal before the engraving is either removed or defaced. I mentioned in post #1 that I couldn't find any evidence he'd been awarded a DSM. Too bad I couldn't research on the spot before buying this thing.

 

I checked back at the shop. There is an Air Medal with a "9" numeral, a Legion of Merit with OLC, and a Sliver Star. All crimped brooch, all engraved with his name. Of the 4 named medals, at the very least, I got the only "period" medal, so that's a bit of a silver lining. I couldn't convince the shopkeep that his consignor's medals were bad, and didn't have any intention of buying them just to take them off the market, so be warned that there are at least these 3 other medals out there with Bond's name on them. I won't post the name of the shop because it was an individual dealer who put these items in the shop, not the shop itself, but if anyone else wants to jump on the grenade and go buy them, send me a PM and I'll give you the address or phone number of the place.

 

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what Bay State sold the Purple Heart for?

[KASTAUFFER]

Having been "stung" in this way, I assure everyone on this forum that I have no interest in passing the screw onto anyone else. I will not sell this medal before the engraving is either removed or defaced. I mentioned in post #1 that I couldn't find any evidence he'd been awarded a DSM. Too bad I couldn't research on the spot before buying this thing.

 

I checked back at the shop. There is an Air Medal with a "9" numeral, a Legion of Merit with OLC, and a Sliver Star. All crimped brooch, all engraved with his name. Of the 4 named medals, at the very least, I got the only "period" medal, so that's a bit of a silver lining. I couldn't convince the shopkeep that his consignor's medals were bad, and didn't have any intention of buying them just to take them off the market, so be warned that there are at least these 3 other medals out there with Bond's name on them. I won't post the name of the shop because it was an individual dealer who put these items in the shop, not the shop itself, but if anyone else wants to jump on the grenade and go buy them, send me a PM and I'll give you the address or phone number of the place.

 

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what Bay State sold the Purple Heart for?

 

 

I always tell guys like this " is your reputation worth the $20 you might make on this deal if everyone but you thinks the medals are fake?".

 

Kurt

[shrapneldude]

I always tell guys like this " is your reputation worth the $20 you might make on this deal if everyone but you thinks the medals are fake?".

That's exactly why I'm going to scratch out the engraving before selling the medal. Even selling it with the disclaimer "the engraving is bogus" isn't going to prevent it from being sold as real some time in the future.

[wartimecollectables.com]

That's exactly why I'm going to scratch out the engraving before selling the medal. Even selling it with the disclaimer "the engraving is bogus" isn't going to prevent it from being sold as real some time in the future.

 

Yep

[tom2001]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what Bay State sold the Purple Heart for?

 

It was listed at $425, I believe, but just a couple of hours after this thread started Scott changed the listing to "oops, we got burned"

 

 

http://www.baystatemilitaria.com/vietnam/v...talinsignia.htm

 

Now that's what I call an honest dealer. :thumbsup:

 

Hope he gets his money back.

[MattS]

"It needs to be marked in a way so it can not decieve anyone ever again.." Wouldn't the back being completely defaced from fake engraving and then removal of such engraving alert anyone who looked at it that it had been tampered with? Seems like a red flag to even a novice. :think:

[Jack's Son]

My solution may be extreme to some, but it is the only way to deal with this type of problem.

However, if you want to scratch out the engraving and use it as a "whatever", that's up to you.

 

Shrap.......what did the medal cost you??

[scottplen]

My solution may be extreme to some, but it is the only way to deal with this type of problem.

However, if you want to scratch out the engraving and use it as a "whatever", that's up to you.

 

Shrap.......what did the medal cost you??

 

R

I like that !! or use a red Permanent marker and write REPRO On the back!! I have seen patches like that!!

[shrapneldude]

"It needs to be marked in a way so it can not decieve anyone ever again.." Wouldn't the back being completely defaced from fake engraving and then removal of such engraving alert anyone who looked at it that it had been tampered with? Seems like a red flag to even a novice. :think:

Like has been said, removing the engraving with a dremel tool or something would make this medal an ugly "filler" piece, but would spare it from complete destruction. It's alread been defaced with a false engraving, but I fail to see how the medal would still be "suspect" if the engraving were completely defaced or rubbed out, if for no other reason than the suspect engraving would be gone. This medal began its life as an original WWII DSM, and remains one with or without the bogus engraving. Which brings me to the next question:

 

 

My solution may be extreme to some, but it is the only way to deal with this type of problem.

I hardly believe that this is "the only way" with something like this. A quick look through the fakes section will show countless painted helmets and put-together uniforms. Are you honestly suggesting that a uniform with fake patches or a fixed bail helmet with fake painting be completely destroyed? As a collector, I find it hard to stomach the idea of taking a World war II medal and engraving it with a name that doesn't belong there, but I'm significantly more disgusted at the thought of smashing it into oblivion just because a tiny percentage of the rear surface area of the medal, the side which isnt' even seen when displayed, has been tampered with. No, in the interest of preserving a piece of history, and despite any other outrageous suggestions to the contrary, I will not be destroying this medal. I'm going to have the engraving scratched out. Once the engraving is gone, it's just another ugly medal, right?

 

If the moral standard for the hobby is that tampered-with military items that are otherwise legitimate pieces should be destroyed rather than "rendered harmless" then perhaps preservation of artifacts isn't the primary goal, in which case, I'm very confused.

 

To reiterate: 1) I got screwed buying this medal, thinking the engraving was real. 2) I don't know the name of the consignor at the antique store, but he more than likely knew this was bogus by the price he was asking, although it was indicated on the tag that it was real. 3) I have no objection to defacing the engraving, which is fake, but have serious reservations about destroying the medal itself, which is a genuine piece. 4) I have no intention whatsoever to let this medal in its' current state (falsely engraved) out into the wild by trading or selling it, without first having removed the engraving. As long as the medal is engraved like this, it will ALWAYS have the potential to screw someone else out of money.

[USMCR79]

I saw this post yesterday and was tempted to comment since I've seen quite a bit of this CRAP for a year now, but I figured that I had my .02 in the other postings related to this issue. I'm glad that you guys discussed this and hopefully we may have saved someone else from getting "Burned"

 

Bill

[scottplen]

I saw this post yesterday and was tempted to comment since I've seen quite a bit of this CRAP for a year now, but I figured that I had my .02 in the other postings related to this issue. I'm glad that you guys discussed this and hopefully we may have saved someone else from getting "Burned"

 

Bill

Hello

Bill i think this guy engraving them is in FL.

[USMCR79]

Hello

Bill i think this guy engraving them is in FL.

 

 

Yes, That's why I see a lot of them!!

[Jack's Son]

Yes, That's why I see a lot of them!!

But Bill!!!

Not only is he in Florida, he's in Southeastern, middle Florida, just 2 miles South of the 49th Parallel!!,

And up the hollow from Gobbler's Knob!!

[439th Signal Battalion]

I was with Dave when he bought all of Bond's uniforms and can tell you that there were no medals there. I also clearly recall that the seller stated that the medals went to the Infantry Museum. As for Bond's status as a "B.G." I also clearly recall that Bond was KIA before he actually ever had the rank pinned on as he was a Col (P) in a BG slot when he took command of the 199th Infantry Brigade.

 

Allan

 

Sir,

 

General Bond was already a Brigadier and had been for a few months when he took command of the 199th Infantry Brigade from BG Warren K. Bennett in November of 1969.

 

See link for the story at:

 

http://media.tripod.lycos.com/1956294/1505593.pdf

 

http://signal439.tripod.com/redcatcher199l...commanders.html

 

On 1 April 1970, General Bond became the only general officer killed in actual ground combat when he was hit in the chest and mortally wounded following a large firefight with elements of D Troop, 17th Cavalry and the 33rd NVA Regiment in northern Long Khanh Province, III Corps. He died on his C&C chopper while en-route to the hospital.

 

There are other general officer to have been killed during the war, but they were either promoted upon death or went down in accidents/crashes.

 

Airborne, Ranger, (and I believe SF qualified), General Bond had also served in Darby's Rangers in WWII and was captured at Anzio in January of 1944.

 

Here is another link that lists some of his awards and decorations: http://media.tripod.lycos.com/1956294/1505626.pdf

 

By the way, the Distinguished Service Medal in question may be legit as it is listed on his awards but his status as a former POW is not...

[MattS]

I agree with your decision shrapneldude. Like you said, would you run over an original fixed bail M1 with a truck just because someone put a fake 506th PIR insignia on it? If an original M42 para jacket has a repro 82nd patch on it, do you cut the jacket into ribbons and throw it away? Seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face and certainly no way to treat original artifacts. Now, a completely fake Made-in-Pakistan-last-week repro patch is completely different, but this is still an original WW2 medal.

[Bugme]

Here's the complete context of Bay States statement. Scott is really a class act!

 

Evidently we got burned on this one!! After having some discussions with some other Dealers we have discovered this to be a variety that is associated with fake engraved Purple Hearts coming out of Florida. We purchased this from an old time OMSA member and had no reason not to trust him. We will leave this up for a few days so that our customers can learn the engraving style. Make some copies of these photos and pass them around.

[Jack's Son]

For those of you who don't know Shrapneldude, this thread is him through and through.

He is as steadfast in his believes whether it is the "Right" of this Medal to survive, or your "Right" to disrespect the flag. He was gone into battle and bled to protect those "Rights", and he believes that we, as Americans have to protect them dearly.

 

He is a passionate "Libertarian", and will argue your right as a free American to the end. If you ever want to stand by a righteous man, a man of conviction, then stand with him!!

I have a good time giving him "Stuff", but I'm there for him ANYTIME!

 

JS

 

(This has been an unpaid testimonial by the committee to reelect Shrap.......)

[USMCR79]

I was once in this position, having an engraved medal that was a fake, I bought a dremel set with a polishing stone and very carefully polished off the name, and used emery paper for the final polish, it did not come out too bad.

 

Bill

[shrapneldude]

[/b]I have a good time giving him "Stuff", but I'm there for him ANYTIME!

(This has been an unpaid testimonial by the committee to reelect Shrap.......)

DaMM, I probably should pay you for that! haha

I thank you very much for being one of the very few people out there who can see a disagreement as a difference of opinion, and not a personal attack! A (much) lesser man would've resorted to name-calling at my expression of disagreement. Gonna have to disagree with your use of the word "righteous" though. Anyone who's spent 5 minutes with me could tell you the foul language and hateful remarks that come out are anything but righteous!

 

As to your question about what I paid for it, I'm a bit ashamed to admit it because it's a fake, but feeling much better now that this medal isn't going to fool anyone else ever again. It cost me a hundred and a half. For what I thought was an identified General's named medal, that seemed very fair. If it WERE real, that would probably be a steal, but since it's fake, looks like it'll be a loss.

[Cobrahistorian]

Aw hell Dan, we all know you're a righteous (shrapnel)dude!

 

Sucks about the engraving, but yeah, Dremel an X into the engraving and you've got a decent WWII-vintage DSM with OLC.

 

Jon

[shrapneldude]

Here's the medal today.

Still ugly, but at least it's not going to fool anyone else.

[shrapneldude]

[Longbranch]

Honestly, I don't think it looks too bad...

[Robbo]

Honestly, I don't think it looks too bad...

 

I agree. It was never going to win 1st prize in a beauty contest, but I'm sure someone can use it in a collection so it won't be a total loss.

Good work.

Rob

[MattS]

Thanks for not taking a sledgehammer to it and saving this piece of history!