shrapneldude Posted June 9, 2011 Share #1 Posted June 9, 2011 Found this today at a NC antique store. It was in a small case. It was reasonable enough to buy and considering the "BG" on there, I figured it'd be worth grabbing. I researched out a Brigadier General William R Bond who was killed in combat in Vietnam and commanded the 199th brigade. However, I haven't seen any regerence to his receiving a DSM. Open to any thoughts and or comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrapneldude Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share #2 Posted June 9, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrapneldude Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share #3 Posted June 9, 2011 If nothing else, I guess it's a nice WWII era slotted brooch DSM medal. It only swivels 90 degrees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorR Posted June 10, 2011 Share #4 Posted June 10, 2011 I think his PH was just sold on Bay State. http://www.baystatemilitaria.com/vietnam/DSCN0780e.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted June 10, 2011 Share #5 Posted June 10, 2011 Shrap, Maybe you can find the person who bought the Heart and offer it to him!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmpmstr Posted June 10, 2011 Share #6 Posted June 10, 2011 Dave might weigh in on this one. BG Bond's uniforms passed through our hands over time and are now housed in the Bond Room in the Infantry Museum. He may or may not have seen his medals in the past and he along with others can speak with more expertise on the engraving on the DSM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottplen Posted June 10, 2011 Share #7 Posted June 10, 2011 IMO The PH engraving is no good ! seems like the fakes coming out of FL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottplen Posted June 10, 2011 Share #8 Posted June 10, 2011 I am no expert ! I don't like the heart i think its aging is fake and engraving :thumbdown: The PH seems more an 1980s vintage IMO!!! as for DSM I have no clue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmpmstr Posted June 10, 2011 Share #9 Posted June 10, 2011 IMO The PH engraving is no good ! seems like the fakes coming out of FL. My thoughts as well. I don't like the DSM but not even in the ballpark of expertise on that engraving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted June 10, 2011 Share #10 Posted June 10, 2011 I am no expert ! I don't like the heart i think its aging is fake and engraving :thumbdown: The PH seems more an 1980s vintage IMO!!! as for DSM I have no clue? This medal ( the PH ) is one of the fakes being engraved in Florida in recent days. We have discussed them on the forum before. Whoever it is has been prolific at cranking these out. All of them have this same font and format ( date ETC ). Thank god the idiot making these does not know what he is doing. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrapneldude Posted June 10, 2011 Author Share #11 Posted June 10, 2011 About this DSM... There was at least one other similarly engraved medal with the same name, a Legion of Merit, which I didn't have enough cash to buy, and with my lack of expertise on engraving, I left it. Should I go back for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted June 10, 2011 Share #12 Posted June 10, 2011 Gentlemen, I didn't even think the engraving was worth commenting on, nobody asked the question, so I left it alone. That's how far off base it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrapneldude Posted June 10, 2011 Author Share #13 Posted June 10, 2011 Gentlemen,I didn't even think the engraving was worth commenting on, nobody asked the question, so I left it alone. That's how far off base it is. Is that the Bay State Purple Heart, the DSM I have, or both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted June 10, 2011 Share #14 Posted June 10, 2011 About this DSM... There was at least one other similarly engraved medal with the same name, a Legion of Merit, which I didn't have enough cash to buy, and with my lack of expertise on engraving, I left it. Should I go back for it? Based on the fact the PH is a known fake and fakes beget fakes.... I wouldnt bother. I dont like the DSM either. It is definately NOT official government engraving. Its nothing like known good examples. After 1949 the Army did not engrave ranks on medals ( except the MOH ). There is no original paperwork with it, no provenence, so unless the General handed it to you or you bought it at his estate sale, you will have a tough time convincing anyone it is truly his. If the engraving had been official govt engraving... well thats a different story. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskjl Posted June 10, 2011 Share #15 Posted June 10, 2011 The engraving looks like it was done by a tracer guided engraving machine, probably a Hermes. Very commonly used in Jewelry stores for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted June 10, 2011 Share #16 Posted June 10, 2011 Is that the Bay State Purple Heart, the DSM I have, or both? Both..........Sorry Shrap :pinch: . That's why I thought you could sell it to the person who owns the Heart. Disclaimer: I am not saying these are "faked" medals engraved to deceive. I'm only saying that I do not believe that they were "officially" engraved by the U.S. Government. There always seems to be a misunderstanding when I post my opinion about engraving. I am NOT slamming these medals as Fakes. I'm only stating my opinion. If you do not agree with it, please pass on this post and move to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 10, 2011 Share #17 Posted June 10, 2011 I bought all (and it was literally "all") of Bond's uniforms that he left behind from Vietnam (where he was KIA) from the guy who bought them directly from the general's widow. He never made any mention of getting any of the medals; in fact, he said the medals were in the Infantry Museum at Ft Benning. I'm guessing that someone's churning out medals attributed to General Bond for the resale value... Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom2001 Posted June 10, 2011 Share #18 Posted June 10, 2011 This medal ( the PH ) is one of the fakes being engraved in Florida in recent days. We have discussed them on the forum before. Whoever it is has been prolific at cranking these out. All of them have this same font and format ( date ETC ). Thank god the idiot making these does not know what he is doing. Kurt Exactly what Kurt said. See the Jan/Feb 2010 issue of JOMSA for more pics of this type. These PH's are FAKE. 100% FAKE. Engraved recently and absolutely meant to deceive collectors. Scott should know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wartimecollectables.com Posted June 10, 2011 Share #19 Posted June 10, 2011 I guess I should weigh in. I purchased the Bond PH (or one with identical engraving) at a Columbia, SC Civil War/Militaria show last year for a whopping $20 from a dealer from FL. Thought it was worth that to study. He had others named the same... an ARCOM to a Nurse, a Silver Star, and a couple others. I should have trashed the PH when I was done looking at it but swapped it to a fella from VA for about what I had in it with a full explanation. I fully believe his intent was the same as mine. How it ended up where it did, I do not know though I can only see it as an honest mistake on Bay State's part, he's a straight up dealer and I shouldn't have allowed it to get out again. Anyway, Tom & Kurt are 100% correct about the naming being bogus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan H. Posted June 10, 2011 Share #20 Posted June 10, 2011 I bought all (and it was literally "all") of Bond's uniforms that he left behind from Vietnam (where he was KIA) from the guy who bought them directly from the general's widow. He never made any mention of getting any of the medals; in fact, he said the medals were in the Infantry Museum at Ft Benning. I'm guessing that someone's churning out medals attributed to General Bond for the resale value... Dave I was with Dave when he bought all of Bond's uniforms and can tell you that there were no medals there. I also clearly recall that the seller stated that the medals went to the Infantry Museum. As for Bond's status as a "B.G." I also clearly recall that Bond was KIA before he actually ever had the rank pinned on as he was a Col (P) in a BG slot when he took command of the 199th Infantry Brigade. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrapneldude Posted June 10, 2011 Author Share #21 Posted June 10, 2011 Alright. Is there any value to the medal itself, even with the engraving, as a WWII Slot Brooch DSM? Should I have the engraving sanded off or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted June 10, 2011 Share #22 Posted June 10, 2011 Alright. Is there any value to the medal itself, even with the engraving, as a WWII Slot Brooch DSM? Should I have the engraving sanded off or something? Shrap, I'm sorry to say this, but I don't see what you can do with it other then beat it to death with a 'framing' hammer. It's pretty beaten up as is, and grinding the name off won't improve the looks. Put the medal out of its misery, and save someone else the same bad luck you had! :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrapneldude Posted June 10, 2011 Author Share #23 Posted June 10, 2011 Shrap,I'm sorry to say this, but I don't see what you can do with it other then beat it to death with a 'framing' hammer. It's pretty beaten up as is, and grinding the name off won't improve the looks. Put the medal out of its misery, and save someone else the same bad luck you had! :thumbsup: You're kidding, right? It's still a decent, albeit banged up, WWII Slot Brooch Distinguished Service Medal. Just because some a*sclown put General Bond's name on there doesn't mean I shoud bash it with a hammer. Is that a common approach to dealing with falsely engraved medals? I can't believe that destroying an otherwise legitimate piece is preferable to removing the phony engraving. :thumbdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattS Posted June 10, 2011 Share #24 Posted June 10, 2011 I agree with shrapneldude's post above. No sense in destroying an original WW2-era medal with bad engraving. Still displays ok from the front, just remove the fake engraving off the rear and use it as a filler piece. No one mentioned that being awarded a DSM w/OLC should have been mentioned in the obits of BG Bond, don't you think? As it wasn't I would say he didn't receive one, never mind two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakkasan187 Posted June 10, 2011 Share #25 Posted June 10, 2011 I wouldn't destroy the medal, however, what happens if Shrapneldude is no longer in possession of said medal and the cycle thus continues again. Something out of the ordinary could happen, like God forbid Shraps house is broken into or the item is lost in a storm or somthing else. It needs to be marked in a way so it can not decieve anyone ever again.. There are many more people out there who do not read this forum or are members of this forum who will not know the truth, and the cyle will repeat itself. With that being said, I am sorry to see that Shrapneldude is stuck with a fake engraved award... Sorry Shrap... Leigh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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