N.S. Meyer Flight Engineer wing and the B-29

[John Cooper]

Hi all - snapped this up when I saw it but was not sure if it was a repo when I did so i.e. I took a gamble since it was $20. I will let the phots tell the story.

 

On a side note that maybe others can help me out with. (please correct me for any mistakes)

 

As far as I recall the B-29 first went into production in 1943 but was not "mission ready" until June 5th 1944. My question is when was the FE wing first authorized? I think Duncan Campbell states late war but I am not sure the exact date. Additionally does anyone know for what period of time the FE wing badge was used?

 

 

Cheers

John

 

 

 

[John Cooper]

Some additional photos.

 

 

 

[US82Bravo]

My question is when was the FE wing first authorized?

 

According to Maguire's "Silver Wings, Pinks & Greens", the Flight Engineer wing was authorized 19 June 1945.

 

Wikipedia has some additional information indicating they were no longer issued and declared obsolete in 1962 with provisions for wear through the early 1970's.

 

You are correct about the B-29 information. The first flight of the XB-29 was 21 September 1942 with the initial production aircraft delivered 29 June 1943. Operational status was September 1943 with the first combat mission flown by the 58th Bomb Wing on 5 June 1944 to the railroad yards at Bangkok, Thailand. (Source - Boeing and New England Air Museum -58th Bomb Wing websites)

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Larry

[jweitkamp]

My dad was shot down over Leipzig on 29 May 44. When he went thru the interrogation routine at Dulag Luft the only questions he was asked were "Dou you speak German ( He was aked in German : Sprechen sie Deutsch? to which he answered "Nein" I take after him as a smat rump...) and when were the B-29's scheduled to arrive in England.... He had no answer for that one...

Hi all - snapped this up when I saw it but was not sure if it was a repo when I did so i.e. I took a gamble since it was $20. I will let the phots tell the story.

 

On a side note that maybe others can help me out with. (please correct me for any mistakes)

 

As far as I recall the B-29 first went into production in 1943 but was not "mission ready" until June 5th 1944. My question is when was the FE wing first authorized? I think Duncan Campbell states late war but I am not sure the exact date. Additionally does anyone know for what period of time the FE wing badge was used?

Cheers

John

 

[bschwartz]

Wing looks good to me John especially for $20!

[John Cooper]

Thanks for all the replies guys!

[Jack's Son]

John,

Here it is again..............

 

 

Flight Engineer Badge

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

The Flight Engineer Badge was a qualification badge of the United States Army Air Forces authorized late in the Second World War on 19 June 1945. It was awarded to those military officers and NCOs who had qualified as flight engineers on board a military aircraft. As aircraft grew increasingly complex, the need arose for an in-flight specialist dedicated to monitoring and operating the various systems. However, prior to the creation of their own distinctive wings, flight engineers wore aircrew wings.

 

During the Korean War, the Flight Engineer Badge was slowly phased out by the United States Air Force and replaced with the Aircrew Badge. By 1962, the Flight Engineer Badge was no longer issued and had been declared obsolete. However, regulations through the early 1970s authorized USAF personnel who had been "...granted aeronautical ratings no longer current ... to wear the aviation badge that was in effect when the rating was granted." The Flight Engineer Badge continued to be worn by some remaining WWII and Korean War veterans until they eventually retired or otherwise left military service. The badge is still worn today by some flight engineers as unofficial novelty badges, but only on flight suits during inflight operations. The official design a four-bladed propeller with 18 radial cylinders.

 

[edit] See also

[John Cooper]

Thanks for the wiki info! I am under the assumption that this wing was made prior to the use of IOH codes which IIRC was the early 1950s unless somene has a better guess.

 

Cheers

John

[MikeK]

Hi John,

 

Anywhere from latest WW2 to KW imo, probably later rather than earlier though.

 

The keepers look like post-48 examples, so unless there's reason to question whether they've been added later they may also indicate later (post-WW2) construction.

 

I only have one set of Meyer Engineers - pinback - but the basewings are a different strike, with only a small central circle. I can only date them the same way. Most Flight Engineer Wings I've seen recently have been clutchbacks.

 

Regards

Mike

[COOKIEMAN]

USAAF FLIGHT ENGINEER WINGS

 

John, some additional information and clarification. Wikipedia is a great source to start with in the pursuit of knowledge. Unfortunately some info posted on Wikipedia contains errors, and in some cases is completely wrong. The Flight Engineer badge was approved by the Adjutant General, 19 June 1945, and promulgated in Change 4 to Army Reg 600-35, 4 July 1945. (See attched picture). With what resources I have available at hand, I do not have an exact date is was prohibited from wear on the USAF Uniform.

 

It is still depicted (page 248) in the Airman's Handbook, Second Edition, May 1951. I do know it was worn after 1955. The USAF gray fatigue uniform was introduced about 1955, and I have a FE wing embroidered on gray fatigue material, photo also attached.

 

Now some comments about the Wikipedia information. I have not seen any info from any source that officers wore the FE Wing. I have a group of documents and photos from one fo the first officers to go through the (B-29) Flight Engineer School at Lowry AAF. His grauation diploma inicates he is an Aircraft Observer (Flight Engineer). He is wearing the Aircraft Observer wing in his pictures. In fairness, he graduated from FE school before the FE was authorized. Enlisted graduates from the FE school were presented Aircrew Wings. I would like to hear from anybody who has photos / documentation show officers wearing the FE wing.

 

One other comment about the design of the badge, it is a four-bladed prop centered on a nine cylinder radial engine. Radial engines have an odd number of cylinders, in-line engines ahve an even number (except for Audis). An 18 cylinder radial engine would be too large to fit on an airplane.

[John Cooper]

Mike thanks and I have to say I tend to think the same about the date but based upon construction although I have neard otherwise.

 

John - thanks for the AR scan and the photo of the wing. I too would love to see some photos of the badge in wear from WW2 and later i.e. into Korean war. In fact I think the type of information you have provided is exactly what we need on the forum as it provides depth of knowledge that one would be hard pressed to find any other place except via the combined knowledge and experience of the forum members.

 

 

As a follow on question maybe you or some of the other menbers can clear something up for me.

 

According to a few pages I have from the MIL-B-10955B (Military Specification Badges, Qualification, Aviation) 31 May 1955

 

The FE badge is not listed so with this in mind it would appear based in part upon your information the badge was phased out prior to the date I listed although still authorized to wear by those who qualified. Additionally I think the date may be 22 Sept 1952. I list 1952 since the spec I listed above superseds the 1952 spec.

 

Thoughts?

 

John

[pfrost]

THis is from an old thread of mine. This guy was a B17 gunner in the 8th AAF during WWII.

 

Here is a post war, 50's vintage photo of him wearing (what is more than likely) a NS Meyer pattern flight engineer wing. Also, I believe it looks like the 2 inch shirt size wing.

[bobgee]

Hi all - snapped this up when I saw it but was not sure if it was a repo when I did so i.e. I took a gamble since it was $20. I will let the phots tell the story.

 

On a side note that maybe others can help me out with. (please correct me for any mistakes)

 

As far as I recall the B-29 first went into production in 1943 but was not "mission ready" until June 5th 1944. My question is when was the FE wing first authorized? I think Duncan Campbell states late war but I am not sure the exact date. Additionally does anyone know for what period of time the FE wing badge was used?

Cheers

John

 

 

John - When I saw this post I recalled an article I had seen in a WWII copy of "Air Force" magazine. I finally found it! In the September 1945 issue, on page 51, the wing is pictured with the following information:

 

"The Superfortress engineer may now be identified by the wings he wears. Lt.Gen. Barton K. Yount's AAF Training Command has announced that henceforth all graduates of the command's flight engineering course will be awarded the new aviation badge, reproduced here. Instructors and recent graduates now undergoing B-29 transition training are changing over to the new type of wings.

 

Heretofore, flight engineers have been awarded wings which bear the letter "O" in the center, to correspond with the aeronautical rating of Aircraft Observer. This rating and type of badge were shared with several other aerial specialists. The center of the new engineer's wings shows the outline of a Superfortress engine and four-bladed propeller."

 

It appears that when instituted the wing was specifically intended for Superfortress flight engineers, which was established as a commissioned rank and was intended to be filled by a rated pilot. Hope you find this tidbit interesting. The short-lived FE wing has always been misunderstood.

Bobgee