KLR Posted May 30, 2011 Share #1 Posted May 30, 2011 Hello I think this is a Cadet shako from West Point. The marking are faint but you can make out USMA. The body is cloth the top is black leather. The insignia is the type seen on early 1800 bell crown shakos and I think it has been added to the shako. I can see the out line of some kind of sheild insignia that use to be on the shako. Thanks for any help. Kirby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLR Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share #2 Posted May 30, 2011 Markings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLR Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share #3 Posted May 30, 2011 Markings ......................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLR Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share #4 Posted May 30, 2011 ......................... //////////////////////// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLR Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted May 30, 2011 //////////////////////// ............................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted May 30, 2011 Share #6 Posted May 30, 2011 The shako body itself appears to be the type worn at military academies, such as West Point. But all of the "hardware" is just a lot of stuff that someone added on to make it appear to be a 1820's era bell crown hat. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLR Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share #7 Posted May 30, 2011 The shako body itself appears to be the type worn at military academies, such as West Point. But all of the "hardware" is just a lot of stuff that someone added on to make it appear to be a 1820's era bell crown hat. Kurt Here it is next to a bell crown shako. The eagle is the same pattern. The ends of the wings are broken off on the Bell crown shako. Kirby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMI88 Posted May 30, 2011 Share #8 Posted May 30, 2011 The body of the shako is similar to those worn at VMI starting around 1906 and continuing through the late 1940s. I assume those worn at other military academies would be similar. This shako could have started its life at any one of a number of places. It's definitely worth restoring with proper insignia, especially if you can figure out what would be correct. Is there a name or an outline of the original cap badge? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLR Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share #9 Posted May 31, 2011 The body of the shako is similar to those worn at VMI starting around 1906 and continuing through the late 1940s. I assume those worn at other military academies would be similar. This shako could have started its life at any one of a number of places. It's definitely worth restoring with proper insignia, especially if you can figure out what would be correct. Is there a name or an outline of the original cap badge? Bill Hello Thanks for the information. I was thinking the USMA would be West Point, I hadn't even thought about the other schools. You can see the outline of a large shield so I need to check out some of the other schools and see what I can find. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted May 31, 2011 Share #10 Posted May 31, 2011 Based on the "USMA" stamping and the front impression matching the bottom part of the shield of a West Point shako front plate, I would say definitely West Point. Also, The Citadel and VMI badges (other schools using this type shako) would have left a different imprint (due to insignia design differences). These can be really tough to date. If it had it's original USMA front plate, that would have provided a major dating clue, as the eagle's head on the top of the shield was changed in 1923 from looking from its left to looking to its right. So, you would have at least known pre or post 1923. Other than that, you'd need a cadet name inside that can be looked up. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMI88 Posted June 2, 2011 Share #11 Posted June 2, 2011 I completely missed the "USMA" marking. Based on that, you should have no trouble restoring it. Good find! Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patches Posted June 2, 2011 Share #12 Posted June 2, 2011 Here it is next to a bell crown shako. The eagle is the same pattern. The ends of the wings are broken off on the Bell crown shako. Kirby That bell shako is most impressive. im imagining that it is a very rare item, and it looks in damn good condidtion. How is the inteirour.Would you ever consider getting a exact replica of the pom pom that was worn on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog1129 Posted June 2, 2011 Share #13 Posted June 2, 2011 Based on the "USMA" stamping and the front impression matching the bottom part of the shield of a West Point shako front plate, I would say definitely West Point. Also, The Citadel and VMI badges (other schools using this type shako) would have left a different imprint (due to insignia design differences). These can be really tough to date. If it had it's original USMA front plate, that would have provided a major dating clue, as the eagle's head on the top of the shield was changed in 1923 from looking from its left to looking to its right. So, you would have at least known pre or post 1923. Other than that, you'd need a cadet name inside that can be looked up. Kurt You're totally right, imo, Kurt. This style of shako was worn at West Point from 1899 through the present. The interior USMA cadet quartermaster marking is consistent with hats I have seen, both shakos and dress hats, from before the 1960's. Otherwise, hard to figure an exact date. That bell shako is most impressive. im imagining that it is a very rare item, and it looks in damn good condidtion. How is the inteirour.Would you ever consider getting a exact replica of the pom pom that was worn on it? I love the bell crown shako, too. West Pointers wore similar bell crown shakos for a short period in the 1820's to 1830's or so, iirc. "Cadet Gray" by Frederick P. Todd has details. Patches, do you have access to replicas of the pompon that would have been worn with the bell crown shako? for any of the other shakos? There's a 3-inch reverse taper pompon that was worn in the late 19th c. that is un-findable. Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLR Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share #14 Posted June 2, 2011 Hello The bell crown is an very good condition. I have two black pompoms, I'm going to include one when I move the shako. I found a bell shacko online with a yellow pompom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLR Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share #15 Posted June 2, 2011 Hello The bell crown is an very good condition. I have two black pompoms, I'm going to include one when I move the shako. I found a bell shacko online with a yellow pompom. A few more photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLR Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share #16 Posted June 2, 2011 A few more photos. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLR Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share #17 Posted June 2, 2011 .. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLR Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share #18 Posted June 2, 2011 .... Better front shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLR Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share #19 Posted June 2, 2011 Better front shot. Shoulfd of checked the photo before I loaded it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLR Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share #20 Posted June 2, 2011 Shoulfd of checked the photo before I loaded it. ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog1129 Posted June 3, 2011 Share #21 Posted June 3, 2011 There is a large USMA shako plate on sale on eBay right now: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT This is the style in use from 1923 to present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLR Posted June 4, 2011 Author Share #22 Posted June 4, 2011 There is a large USMA shako plate on sale on eBay right now: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT This is the style in use from 1923 to present. Thanks I will bid on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patches Posted June 4, 2011 Share #23 Posted June 4, 2011 ...... Thats in excelent condidtion for some that's approximately 180-185 year's old. Who much did you pay for it if you dont mind me asking? A couple of year's ago at a weekly antique market here in new york city called the chelsea antique garage,it,s called this because the group that run's it rents the upper and lower level's of a parking garage on W26th between 6th and 7th avenue's. It was here that id seen for sale a RUSSIAN IMPERIAL ARMY GUARD GRENADIER'S MITRE CAP, what regiment i do not know, but it was original looking in marvelous condidtion, exept for a ding along the upper left edge with a little bit of the brass missing and the area bent in. How much it cost? proibiliy thousand's plus dollars.How something like that survived the revolution and civil war not to mention the stalin period and WWII is any body's guess.These mitre cap's are also item's that where past down from the 18th century in the guards regiment's.Some where made of course in the 19th century simply to replace one's that where complety unwearable anymore,but there where mitre's in the pavlov guard grenadier regiment that purportedly had battle damage from the french revolutionary wars and the napoleonic wars. These cap's where givin pride of place among the regimental color bearers and their color guard's as well as the right colume and front rank when the regiment paraded. Was this one of them? If it was true for the pavlovskii guard grenadier regiment, it must be true for the other one's as well, like the semenovskii, and the preobashenskii being a few, the later being the first regiment in the army formed by peter the great.So going of a topic a little as i tend to do I thought you might of found that interesting in relation to this fine historical item you possess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLR Posted June 5, 2011 Author Share #24 Posted June 5, 2011 Thats in excelent condidtion for some that's approximately 180-185 year's old. Who much did you pay for it if you dont mind me asking? A couple of year's ago at a weekly antique market here in new york city called the chelsea antique garage,it,s called this because the group that run's it rents the upper and lower level's of a parking garage on W26th between 6th and 7th avenue's. It was here that id seen for sale a RUSSIAN IMPERIAL ARMY GUARD GRENADIER'S MITRE CAP, what regiment i do not know, but it was original looking in marvelous condidtion, exept for a ding along the upper left edge with a little bit of the brass missing and the area bent in. How much it cost? proibiliy thousand's plus dollars.How something like that survived the revolution and civil war not to mention the stalin period and WWII is any body's guess.These mitre cap's are also item's that where past down from the 18th century in the guards regiment's.Some where made of course in the 19th century simply to replace one's that where complety unwearable anymore,but there where mitre's in the pavlov guard grenadier regiment that purportedly had battle damage from the french revolutionary wars and the napoleonic wars. These cap's where givin pride of place among the regimental color bearers and their color guard's as well as the right colume and front rank when the regiment paraded. Was this one of them? If it was true for the pavlovskii guard grenadier regiment, it must be true for the other one's as well, like the semenovskii, and the preobashenskii being a few, the later being the first regiment in the army formed by peter the great.So going of a topic a little as i tend to do I thought you might of found that interesting in relation to this fine historical item you possess. Hello The shako is part of a very large collection I aquired. I have seen very few of these for sale. A dealer has one priced a $3500 and I found another one that sold for $3000++ at auction in 07. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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