Medal Of Honor

[lothrop]

Is there anyone out there who has MoH ribbons or medals of any era in their collection or at a museum they run? I'd just be interested in seeing how folks have these displayed , etc.

 

*Disclaimer* Yes, I know the law on these inside and out. I also believe that if you bought them before the law you're covered (I'm sure that's a gray area). I do know some foreign collectors/members have them and do a beautiful job of honoring them and that's what i'm interested in.

[Brig]

contrary to what the law states, there have been recent issues with the FBI seizing legally owned medals. I'm sure anyone who does possess these legally will still hesitate to chime in

[lothrop]

I agree on that portion Brig. My hopes are toward our brothers outside of the jursidiciton who are preserving these items honorably. I once was in possession of a MoH ribbon as a school kid. I ordered it from a magazine for a school project. Where it ever went to, I don't know. And I think I'm kinda glad.

[4STARCHRIS]

I would have to say that I have been to numerous museums around the country and no one display the MOH, IMHO, better than the 32 at Michigan's Own Museum. Nothing but a top notch, first rate, display.

I have had the oppurtunity to have had 5 MOH in my collection at one time. I had about 15 MOH ribbon displays at one time, many times I have posted them here on the forum.

just my two cents worth.

At one point I worked with several MOH conventions and had displayed my collection before it all became weird. Now not worth the hassle which is even sadder.

4starchris

[67Rally]

Here's one at the Museum of Flight in Seattle...no...I do not run the museum.

[CNY Militaria]

I have heard about the FBI going after the actual medals in collections, what about the ribbon bar? Anyone have photos of MOH uniforms they own/have seen over the years that they would care to post?

[carbinephalen]

Wow, I had absolutely no idea that the govt. was going after MOH's in peoples private collections now! That's absolutely crazy. Glad to see my tax dollars are helping to pay for that operation! What are they planning on doing with them once they confiscate them?...lock them away in a vault until they deteriorate?! The laws make it perfectly clear that simply owning one is not illegal, what ground do they stand on to do such an act?

[dhcoleterracina]

I don't believe that they are locked away, I believe they are destroyed. Pretty sad.

[4STARCHRIS]

As I mentioned in my post earlier you can go here to see some of my displays and uniforms.

I can also repost them here if you like.

 

My thread: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...?showtopic=1972

 

4starchris

[4STARCHRIS]

 

An example of one of my displays.

4starchris

[67Rally]

 

An example of one of my displays.

4starchris

 

 

Gorgeous! Love the Navy medals!!

[4STARCHRIS]

 

General Butler's double Medal of Honor.

4starchris

[cutiger83]

I don't believe that they are locked away, I believe they are destroyed. Pretty sad.

 

I can't believe they would destroy a MOH. Where did you hear this? Is it based on fact or heresay?

[Dave]

I can't believe they would destroy a MOH. Where did you hear this? Is it based on fact or heresay?

 

Absolute fact.

 

Most people unfortunately thought (in the past) that the MOH rules were: can't buy, can't sell, but you can own. Recent (within the last year) actions by the FBI in confiscating a collector's legitimately purchased "pre-ban" MOHs changed that idea.

 

The explanation of the FBI was this: Medals of Honor have always been contracted by the US Government and only by the US Government for US Government use. This does not apply to all other medals: they have been contracted for approved manufacture by multiple manufacturers, and those manufacturers were (and are) allowed to sell those awards commercially via military exchanges, etc. In contrast, the MOHs were manufactured strictly for the purpose of awarding them to MOH recipients. In other words, 100 were made under "X" contract, therefore, those 100 were meant to be issued out to 100 recipients - NOT to be sold at military exchanges, etc.

 

SO...with that understanding, the FBI considers ANY Medal of Honor owned by a collector, unless documented as being given to the collector by an actual Medal of Honor recipient (and that's frowned upon as the recipients are technically not supposed to purchase additional Medals unless they lost/misplaced their original...so why would they have "spares" to give away?) all other MOHs in collections are illegally owned and are considered by the FBI to be counterfeit.

 

Wait...counterfeit? Yes. Because all MOHs are purchased in exact numbered contracts and all of those are signed for as controlled items, any MOH that is in a private collection was thus not part of the contract authorizing it's creation and was thus manufactured illegally...just as if someone made dollar bills on their own printing machine. They might look the same, they might even smell the same. But if you aren't contracted by the government to be an authorized dollar-bill printer, then you just made counterfeit money.

 

What happens when you have counterfeit money? No matter how much you paid for it, you have to surrender it when you are caught with it. Or, you face jail time for possessing counterfeit money. The same thing applies to the MOH...since all of the MOHs in legitimate contracts are accounted for, any MOH (made at any time in the past, to include Civil War) that was sold on the open market was thus a counterfeit item and should be confiscated.

 

In this particular case, this collector was turned in to the FBI by a fellow collector. The FBI initially offered the collector the "opportunity" to turn the medals over to the Medal of Honor Society for their safekeeping. However, the collector hired a lawyer who argued that since the MOH Society is not a government organization, they couldn't legally have them either. Thus, it was agreed upon that, in lieu of fighting in court (and running a legal bill well into the five-digit range) the collector's MOHs would be turned over to the FBI, and just as they would do with counterfeit money, the FBI would destroy them - and they did.

 

People can argue the validity of the FBI's argument all day long, however, this REALLY happened to a REAL collector who legitmately purchased MOHs openly available prior to the ban, and these particular MOHs were manufactured in the 40s/50s, well before the HLI back-door debacle.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Dave

[cutiger83]

Absolute fact.

 

Dave,

 

Thanks so much for the explanation. I appreciate it. With so many lies being on the internet, it is hard to know what is truth and what is fiction.

 

...Kat

[Dave]

Dave,

 

Thanks so much for the explanation. I appreciate it. With so many lies being on the internet, it is hard to know what is truth and what is fiction.

 

...Kat

 

When it comes to militaria collecting though, I'd say there are fewer urban legends on the 'net than there are at local militaria shows! How many times have you heard a dealer tell a collector (or vice versa) "Oh, they never had X like that..." and know he's completely blowing smoke!

[vicjoy1945]

The FBI initially offered the collector the "opportunity" to turn the medals over to the Medal of Honor Society for their safekeeping. However, the collector hired a lawyer who argued that since the MOH Society is not a government organization, they couldn't legally have them either.

 

Hey Dave !!

 

Couldn't it be argued that the majority of museums housing and/or displaying the MoH are not "government agencies" and, therefore should be raided...I mean ransacked...I mean pilfered...I mean...oh heck...you know what I mean...by "the powers that be" !?!

 

Vic

[Dave]

Hey Dave !!

 

Couldn't it be argued that the majority of museums housing and/or displaying the MoH are not "government agencies" and, therefore should be raided...I mean ransacked...I mean pilfered...I mean...oh heck...you know what I mean...by "the powers that be" !?!

 

Vic

 

I think the FBI likes to pick and choose who they go after. To be honest, I personally believe they are a pawn of the MOH Society...but that's my personal opinion. I just wish they could be doing something more productive with their time like catching terrorists or something rather than going after collectors who have legitimately-purchased MOHs in their collection.

 

Once again, my personal opinion...

[67Rally]

I think the FBI likes to pick and choose who they go after. To be honest, I personally believe they are a pawn of the MOH Society...but that's my personal opinion. I just wish they could be doing something more productive with their time like catching terrorists or something rather than going after collectors who have legitimately-purchased MOHs in their collection.

 

Once again, my personal opinion...

 

 

But that IS the issue. Your personal opinion is based on common sense and that is something that is absent from societal consciousness.

[CNY Militaria]

So does that same logic apply to MOH ribbons on uniforms? Some members have posted uniforms with a MOH ribbon on them on the forum, as given by the owner or found years ago, or from whatever source--are those subject to confiscation too? Interesting discussion!

[Jason G]

Dave, that story just makes me want to puke. Seriously.

 

SO, then, if THAT be the case, WHY isn't the FBI wasting more of my tax dollars using it's counter terrorism agents to track down foreign buyers and owners of MOH's????????? Since if someone from another country can't use or own illegal US currency, it should go the same route?

 

I swear, we get more screwed up as a country by the hour.

 

I grow weary.

[Dave]

Since if someone from another country can't use or own illegal US currency, it should go the same route?

 

Man, I never thought of that! I guess it's just their way of "protecting" us. :thumbsup:

[Sabrejet]

Here's one legally held outside of the US! Follow the link and scroll down.

 

General Pershing, on behalf of the United States of America, conferred the Congressional Medal of Honor on the Unknown Warrior on 17 October 1921 and this hangs in a frame on a pillar near the grave.

 

http://www.westminster-abbey.org/our-histo...unknown-warrior

 

Sabrejet

[Jason G]

Yeah Dave....jacked up ain't it?

 

Why aren't 'they' 'protecting' me by doing THAT?

 

Pfffffffffffft.

[LuftStalg1]

I love the old tarnished worn look on the old ones like this. I think it just adds character! :thumbsup:

 

Here's one at the Museum of Flight in Seattle...no...I do not run the museum.