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AIRBORNE GARRISON CAP


cpatrick
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There was recently a post pertaining to an airborne garrison cap. The comment was made, to which I also agree, that the "airborne" garrison cap is among the most highly faked caps in the field of U.S. collecting. Due to the fact that if one has an airborne patch, and a garrison cap, one can easily sew the patch to the hat and call it golden.

 

I am absolutely confident as to it's originality, so I thought that I would post it here for your review, and pose a couple of interesting questions. This cap features a later pattern enlisted man's airborne cap insignia, piped in artillery crimson. (The official, traditional color of artillery branch color of artillery units the world over is refered to as crimson , and not simply as "red".) The patch is rather loosely hand sewn onto the cap. Some folks would have a problem with this, suggesting that an airborne soldier, above all soldiers, would have taken great care and pride in sewing on their patches. This examples clearly dispells that myth.

 

What I find interesting, is that the artillery piped patch is sewn onto an infantry piped garrison. I have seen this done before, on known originals, with no apparent explanation. Of course, there is the possibility that the soldier could have been in an airborne artillery unit. I also wonder if some infantry soldiers were issued patches outside of their respective branches for other reasons. This hat came from a veteran of the 101st Airborne - I know that he was an infantryman, last name of Bouchard. He was quite senile with age, and I wasn't able to get very much information from him about his service. As a result, I have his cap, and not much else to go on.

 

So, what do y'all think?

 

Chris

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Thanks Allan for the reply. You make some interesting points. While answering a couple of questions, or perhaps re-affirming what I had suspected, you also left me kind of scratching my head a little bit.

 

Let me make this perfectly clear, so that no one here can be mistaken. This cap is ABSOLUTELY WWII period. There is nothing that anyone could offer here, that would make me believe otherwise. The veteran that this cap was obtained from was the father of a co-worker of mine. This was purchased when I was almost exclusively purchasing Third Reich items. I was told by a co-worker that her father was "in the war", and that he sent her mother home some German militaria. The following week, I went to her father's house and walked away with an M33 Ground-Rohm SS, and an M40 single decal luftwaffe helmet. I was also given this garrison cap, his 1944 dated Ike - with no insignia, and his 101st Type - "9" patch. I still have all of these items - I'd be more than happy to show you what came out of the house. I also have the phone number of my co-worker - if you would like to question her about her fathers service during WWII, I would be happy to put you in contact with her. (I would first have to gain permision, of course) Maybe you could explain to her that her fathers garrison cap just doesn't seem right to you. Knowing her, she would probably tell you to kiss her - you know what.

 

I am well aware that some post war garrison caps have the squared corners, as this one has. To say that they were not used during WWII is an insult to my integrity, and to the family that this came from. I am absolutely fed up with all of you "experts" out there. How many times have I, or many of YOU, seen a piece of WWI, or WWII, or Civil War equipment that doesn't quite fit the mold? If I was to pass up on the pieces that just didn't fit the mold, I would have missed out on a lot of amazing pieces of history. Many garrison caps that were made outside of the United States fit the "wedge shape" that these are known for. In Britain, and other Common Wealth countries, the garrison is known as the "wedge cap".

 

The idea that WWII garrison caps must have a specific type lining, and no leather sweatband is absolute nonsense, and is an insult to my intelligence. Below you will find an Artillery garrison cap, in OD. It has the contours of the "generally accepted" WWII garrisons. Lo and behold!!! It has a rayon white lining, and a white leather sweatband!! Oh my God.... The artillery WWII enlisted class A, with the 2nd Army patch that this came with must be a put together, or an all together contrived fake!

 

A very good friend of mine, and a true scholar in the militaria field, is in the process of writing a book called, "Answering the Experts" - and his intent is to deal with people just like you. One thing that we had discussed was a veteran that he had encountered six months before, who had a rear seam swivel bail helmet, that had a shrapnel hole through the side of the helmet. This close to death experience happened to this veteran in France, 1944. Interestingly, most collectors regard these helmets as being too late to have been used in the war.

 

I tell you, these untruthfull, deceiving WWII vets. What can we ever do? These veterans are just ruining our field.

 

This is what it amounts to folks. I know that some will agree with me, and others will protest. The bottom line is that people need to get out of the little world that they are living in, open their eyes, and understand that there are more variations in militaria than anyone can ever account for. To see a "WWII" uniform made of polyester, and seeing a garrison cap that is out of the norm, are two different things. One's a fake, the other is just unusual. It's the unusual things that make this field fun and interesting! It's idiots in this field that ruin it for other people.

 

This board IS the best source of information on WWII US field gear and equipment. We have some of the finest, most knowledgeable people on this board, and that is what makes this board great! However, there are some that ruin it. The know it all's. While some of these people know an amazing amount of information, some in that crowd have let their head swell too much. They have educated themselves to the point of ignorance.

 

 

Chris

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Thanks Allan for the reply. You make some interesting points. While answering a couple of questions, or perhaps re-affirming what I had suspected, you also left me kind of scratching my head a little bit.

 

Let me make this perfectly clear, so that no one here can be mistaken. This cap is ABSOLUTELY WWII period. There is nothing that anyone could offer here, that would make me believe otherwise. The veteran that this cap was obtained from was the father of a co-worker of mine. This was purchased when I was almost exclusively purchasing Third Reich items. I was told by a co-worker that her father was "in the war", and that he sent her mother home some German militaria. The following week, I went to her father's house and walked away with an M33 Ground-Rohm SS, and an M40 single decal luftwaffe helmet. I was also given this garrison cap, his 1944 dated Ike - with no insignia, and his 101st Type - "9" patch. I still have all of these items - I'd be more than happy to show you what came out of the house. I also have the phone number of my co-worker - if you would like to question her about her fathers service during WWII, I would be happy to put you in contact with her. (I would first have to gain permision, of course) Maybe you could explain to her that her fathers garrison cap just doesn't seem right to you. Knowing her, she would probably tell you to kiss her - you know what.

 

I am well aware that some post war garrison caps have the squared corners, as this one has. To say that they were not used during WWII is an insult to my integrity, and to the family that this came from. I am absolutely fed up with all of you "experts" out there. How many times have I, or many of YOU, seen a piece of WWI, or WWII, or Civil War equipment that doesn't quite fit the mold? If I was to pass up on the pieces that just didn't fit the mold, I would have missed out on a lot of amazing pieces of history. Many garrison caps that were made outside of the United States fit the "wedge shape" that these are known for. In Britain, and other Common Wealth countries, the garrison is known as the "wedge cap".

 

The idea that WWII garrison caps must have a specific type lining, and no leather sweatband is absolute nonsense, and is an insult to my intelligence. Below you will find an Artillery garrison cap, in OD. It has the contours of the "generally accepted" WWII garrisons. Lo and behold!!! It has a rayon white lining, and a white leather sweatband!! Oh my God.... The artillery WWII enlisted class A, with the 2nd Army patch that this came with must be a put together, or an all together contrived fake!

 

A very good friend of mine, and a true scholar in the militaria field, is in the process of writing a book called, "Answering the Experts" - and his intent is to deal with people just like you. One thing that we had discussed was a veteran that he had encountered six months before, who had a rear seam swivel bail helmet, that had a shrapnel hole through the side of the helmet. This close to death experience happened to this veteran in France, 1944. Interestingly, most collectors regard these helmets as being too late to have been used in the war.

 

I tell you, these untruthfull, deceiving WWII vets. What can we ever do? These veterans are just ruining our field.

 

This is what it amounts to folks. I know that some will agree with me, and others will protest. The bottom line is that people need to get out of the little world that they are living in, open their eyes, and understand that there are more variations in militaria than anyone can ever account for. To see a "WWII" uniform made of polyester, and seeing a garrison cap that is out of the norm, are two different things. One's a fake, the other is just unusual. It's the unusual things that make this field fun and interesting! It's idiots in this field that ruin it for other people.

 

This board IS the best source of information on WWII US field gear and equipment. We have some of the finest, most knowledgeable people on this board, and that is what makes this board great! However, there are some that ruin it. The know it all's. While some of these people know an amazing amount of information, some in that crowd have let their head swell too much. They have educated themselves to the point of ignorance.

Chris

 

OK, I will take it from here. First off I did delete Mr. Henderson's posts at his request. But since you have chosen to speak so clearly on this subject of 101st Overseas Caps let me ask you this one simple question. Who was the Veteran that you obtained the cap from? All I need is a name and you can PM if you so desire.

 

Thank you in advance. By the by, I am looking forward to your friend's book. Please let me know when it is available.

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Without wishing to get drawn into whatever argument is going on here, the patch on the top cap is not a "later pattern enlisted man's airborne cap insignia, piped in artillery crimson..... sewn onto an infantry piped garrison."

 

The patch is the generic "all-arms" patch designed by the 82nd Airborne in 1943, and the red border is standard for all arms, not just artillery (albeit with the more unusual "bomber-style" glider here, quite often seem associated with 11th Airborne caps for some reason). The 101st Airborne were "forced" to go to this generic patch during 1944.

 

Depending on the sub-unit of the 101st guy in question, this cap dates from Oct-Nov 44 to the end of the war (the 502 PIR seems to have held onto their parachute-only patches later than other units, only changing over in April 45 supposedly, whereas other units had begun changing over post-Holland).

 

Have a look here for more examples:

 

http://www.look-out-below.co.uk/uniforms/infcaps.htm

 

Cheers,

Glen.

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pathfinder505
Without wishing to get drawn into whatever argument is going on here, the patch on the top cap is not a "later pattern enlisted man's airborne cap insignia, piped in artillery crimson..... sewn onto an infantry piped garrison."

 

The patch is the generic "all-arms" patch designed by the 82nd Airborne in 1943, and the red border is standard for all arms, not just artillery (albeit with the more unusual "bomber-style" glider here, quite often seem associated with 11th Airborne caps for some reason). The 101st Airborne were "forced" to go to this generic patch during 1944.

 

Depending on the sub-unit of the 101st guy in question, this cap dates from Oct-Nov 44 to the end of the war (the 502 PIR seems to have held onto their parachute-only patches later than other units, only changing over in April 45 supposedly, whereas other units had begun changing over post-Holland).

 

Have a look here for more examples:

 

http://www.look-out-below.co.uk/uniforms/infcaps.htm

 

Cheers,

Glen.

 

I agree that this is a generic patch, not just artillery due to the red border. I was given several by a WWII vet that was in the 82nd and have several id'd groups with the same cap and patch

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