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Shoulder Cords


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This I'm thinking is a manufacturer variant of the WWI French Rope.

 

berlin_brigade_lanyard_1.jpg

 

Thanks, I suspected that as well but I did find a picture of a uniformed soldier (can't find it now)

wearing one that looked to be the same in design and color but no information on the cord ?

Pink and Green ARE not common colors in ribbons and have been doing a lot of looking for any

military ribbon (any country) in those colors but have come up empty.

 

Still a nice cord and will need to figure it out eventually, I am sure one day I will find the clue I need

to put it all together

 

Thanks again

Dennis

 

EDIT: Oh just noticed you suspected WWI anything standing out that would indicate WWI as opposed to WWII ?

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Thanks, I suspected that as well but I did find a picture of a uniformed soldier (can't find it now)

wearing one that looked to be the same in design and color but no information on the cord ?

Pink and Green ARE not common colors in ribbons and have been doing a lot of looking for any

military ribbon (any country) in those colors but have come up empty.

 

Still a nice cord and will need to figure it out eventually, I am sure one day I will find the clue I need

to put it all together

 

Thanks again

Dennis

 

EDIT: Oh just noticed you suspected WWI anything standing out that would indicate WWI as opposed to WWII ?

WWI ropes have Red Flecks, WWII have a continuous Red Line.

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Soldiers of the 3rd Battalion 60th Infantry 9th Infantry arriving in Hawaii after the 9th was withdrawn from Vietnam in 1969. They are wearing the fourragere of the Vietnamese Gallantry Cross Unit Citation indicating the unit was twice cited for that award. It has been mentioned previously in this topic that for a period during the Vietnam War, Vietnamese regulations authorized to wear of the fourragere to units that received multiple citations and U.S. regulations initially authorized acceptance by U.S. units. However, this approval was later rescinded by the U.S. government although the wear of the Gallantry Cross Unit Citation was still authorized.

post-1761-0-69088700-1525986162_thumb.jpg

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Great photo, those boxes for those who don't know are souvenir Vietnamese girl dolls, given away to DEROSing personal, I remember my cousin brought his home back in the fall of 1968, and he was in the Marines. They're actually still out there to buy on Ebay, maybe one day I'll get one for me.

 

VINTAGE-1960s-TRADITIONAL-VIETNAMESE-DOL

post-1761-0-69088700-1525986162.jpg

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Soldiers of the 3rd Battalion 60th Infantry 9th Infantry arriving in Hawaii after the 9th was withdrawn from Vietnam in 1969. They are wearing the fourragere of the Vietnamese Gallantry Cross Unit Citation indicating the unit was twice cited for that award. It has been mentioned previously in this topic that for a period during the Vietnam War, Vietnamese regulations authorized to wear of the fourragere to units that received multiple citations and U.S. regulations initially authorized acceptance by U.S. units. However, this approval was later rescinded by the U.S. government although the wear of the Gallantry Cross Unit Citation was still authorized.

 

Oh thanks, these look very much like the same wider weave I see on the example I have.

 

EDIT: Actually now that I have gone back and looked again at my photo I am not sure again :)

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I'm actually finishing up a book on Unit Awards to Organizations in the American Expeditionary Forces. This is a very misunderstood topic, and I hope to correct a lot of the misinformation that is out there. It will only cover WWI unit awards, but will have all of the official citations and a lot of material about how the whole process evolved during the war.

 

PM me if you are interested in details about the book and for advance purchase options.

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I'm actually finishing up a book on Unit Awards to Organizations in the American Expeditionary Forces. This is a very misunderstood topic, and I hope to correct a lot of the misinformation that is out there. It will only cover WWI unit awards, but will have all of the official citations and a lot of material about how the whole process evolved during the war.

 

PM me if you are interested in details about the book and for advance purchase options.

Sounds good, you can post all you need to post on your book in a new specific topic in this Forum.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/forum/99-book-reports/

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GAZOO,

 

You have posted photos of a French Fourragere from the interwar period. It is most likely of French manufacture. The "pink" is actually a faded red for the colors of the Croix de Guerre (red & green.).

 

When we started accepting awards of the Fourragere, there were no U.S. manufacturers, so we bought them from the French. That style (with the 2 outer loops) appears to have been phased out by WWII. Fourrageres officially issued during WWII and later lacked the outer loops. Oral tradition is that the loops were only worn outside the shoulder if a soldier was in a unit on both occasions the unit was cited and thus earned the Fourragere as a personal award. There is photographic evidence that seems to support this. And as the number of WWI A.E.F. veterans on active duty declined, eventually the 2 outer loops were removed altogether.

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WW1 buff,

Are you sure about the above statement on the double loop fourrageres.I only ask as my father was at the Nurnberg Trials and his fourragere had the two outside hoops and an additional knot above the metal tip.(Unit; 3rd Army,1st Division,26th Infantry). He was assigned to the this unit for the trials to build points to return home.No combat with this unit.

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GAZOO,

 

You have posted photos of a French Fourragere from the interwar period. It is most likely of French manufacture. The "pink" is actually a faded red for the colors of the Croix de Guerre (red & green.).

 

When we started accepting awards of the Fourragere, there were no U.S. manufacturers, so we bought them from the French. That style (with the 2 outer loops) appears to have been phased out by WWII. Fourrageres officially issued during WWII and later lacked the outer loops. Oral tradition is that the loops were only worn outside the shoulder if a soldier was in a unit on both occasions the unit was cited and thus earned the Fourragere as a personal award. There is photographic evidence that seems to support this. And as the number of WWI A.E.F. veterans on active duty declined, eventually the 2 outer loops were removed altogether.

 

Thanks buddy

 

Interesting SIDE NOTE the PINK in the fourragere does not seem to be faded

unless it was faded before it was put together, I see no evidence of fading inside the weave or

in any areas that would of padded due to light exposure. Maybe a natural color change of the

thread overtime,it is very even fade if it is.

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  • 3 months later...

I purchased mine at Clothing Sales , Aberdeen Proving Grounds, MD. in 1984. I was Active Duty Army (1984-1991), then National Guard (1991-2004).

It may have not been authorized but there were soldiers buying and wearing them home. Sorry, no pics, just my first hand knowledge.

 

I'll have to go with your first person experience.

Ordnance Corps shoulder cord. I believe the DUI is for the 101st Ordnance Battalion.

post-1761-0-68147700-1534517572.jpg

post-1761-0-02167700-1534517589.png

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there is an Ordnance Corps shoulder cord, gold and maroon, like the Infantry one. It was only authorized for wear in transit or if assigned to an Ordnance unit. I wore one from 1984 to 1991.

 

Well, if you did, it was not authorized by Army Regulations. It never has been, either. Do you have an image of it being worn? Were you Regular Army or National Guard? If National Guard, was it some kind of state or local thing?

 

Cords could be purchased in every color imaginable in Army-Navy stores for wear by those who did not know better or wanted to "dress" up the uniform to impress civilians. I served from 1970 to 1991 on active duty and the only authorized cord was and still is the one for Infantry. I saw a lot of soldiers wearing Class A and Class B uniforms in all kind of units-- no cords except Infanty were worn. I've been a DA Civilian since 1992, and have traveled to a lot of installations-- again no other cord except the Infantry cord is worn. You will have to show me in the proper uniform and insignia regulations of the past and present where any other cord except infantry was ever authorized. I have some of them here and no Ordnance cord or any other except Infantry has been or is authorized.

 

I purchased mine at Clothing Sales , Aberdeen Proving Grounds, MD. in 1984. I was Active Duty Army (1984-1991), then National Guard (1991-2004).

It may have not been authorized but there were soldiers buying and wearing them home. Sorry, no pics, just my first hand knowledge.

 

I'll have to go with your first person experience.

Ordnance Corps shoulder cord with 101st Ordnance Battalion DUI

post-1761-0-50138800-1534517723.jpg

post-1761-0-10283900-1534517735.png

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Wow! And after a mere 10 years. Thank you. I know those types of non-infantry branch colored shoulder cords were worn after WW2. Sometimes, apparently with local command approval. They just were not sanctioned by "big" Army.

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  • 1 month later...

This appears to be an infantryman of some unit of the 60th Infantry Regiment wearing and Infantry blue shoulder cord and collar disc backings. However, he is wearing an 18th Military Police Brigade pocket patch. Several military police units in Vietnam had attached infantry companies which served as security forces. Company C 52nd Infantry was assigned to the 18th, but I cannot find any reference to any unit of the 60th Infantry.

post-1761-0-37863500-1538061604_thumb.jpg

post-1761-0-02057900-1538061624.jpg

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This appears to be an infantryman of some unit of the 60th Infantry Regiment wearing and Infantry blue shoulder cord and collar disc backings. However, he is wearing an 18th Military Police Brigade pocket patch. Several military police units in Vietnam had attached infantry companies which served as security forces. Company C 52nd Infantry was assigned to the 18th, but I cannot find any reference to any unit of the 60th Infantry.

Best guess is a temporary detail assignment, maybe a platoon, maybe a company??

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Regardless, he's an infantryman apparently assigned to an MP brigade.

My guess, his unit, maybe only his platoon is temperately attached to his local MP unit, not division , but a unit within the 18th MP Bde, who had elmts all over the RVN, possibly for road work, IE extra convoy security etc etc.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Notice the way the guy on the right with his back to the camera is wearing his Infantry shoulder cord. It looks like it is looped over his epaulette and attached somehow on the front of his jacket and also that the end that should be attached to the button under the epaulette is looped under his armpit.

post-1761-0-54848600-1539896125_thumb.jpg

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