Amazing bayonet estate sale

[Bob Hudson]

Just got the notice for this upcoming estate sale. You can bet this place will be crazy when the doors open.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dave]

Man, that's one you DON'T want to get crazy! Just imagine folks arguing over who-got-what with blades in their hands!!!

[Bob Hudson]

Man, that's one you DON'T want to get crazy! Just imagine folks arguing over who-got-what with blades in their hands!!!

 

I plan on going a few hours after it opens to see what's leftover.

[67Rally]

Sheesh! And I thought my "inheritance" of edged weaps was amazing...this is absolutely crazy (as far as volume goes)!

 

The tussle over who grabbed what first on a table chock-full of bladed-weapons is a recipe for disaster.

[kfields]

Yikes!

This will sound negative but I wonder how many leather frogs, straps and tassels will be busted prior to the sale by 'lookers' who don't seem to appreciate how fragile old leather or fabric becomes after many years!

 

Kim

[Bob Hudson]

Yikes!

This will sound negative but I wonder how many leather frogs, straps and tassels will be busted prior to the sale by 'lookers' who don't seem to appreciate how fragile old leather or fabric becomes after many years!

 

Kim

 

This is no preview at these sales: you line up to get in the door at opening time and and it's first come/first served as everyone rushes to grab up what they can. I'd imagine the fighting knives will get snapped up first and then the readily-ID'ed US bayonets, but if you've dealt in a lot of bayos you know that the non-US ones can be a bear to ID (how many variations of Mauser bayonets are there?) so if there are any of those they will sell only if priced low and/or by folks willing to take a gamble.

 

I'm curious as to who priced them - there's a lot of variation in there and it must have been quite a chore valuing them.

[Brian Dentino]

Man, that's one you DON'T want to get crazy! Just imagine folks arguing over who-got-what with blades in their hands!!!

 

If the situation takes this turn I suppose it is good that this is not a firearm heavy sale! He who has the longest blade wins????? :w00t:

[DSchlagan]

...but if you've dealt in a lot of bayos you know that the non-US ones can be a bear to ID (how many variations of Mauser bayonets are there?) so if there are any of those they will sell only if priced low and/or by folks willing to take a gamble.

I think that I'd have to take my boots off to even begin to count all the different Mauser variations that I think I've seen.

Here's a start...

 

It would be interesting to find out who that one in the display case might be attributed to, if anybody.

Looks much to me like it could be either a K98 Dress bayonet, or more likely one of their many similar hilted knives.

 

An awesome cache of blades, for sure.

[Bob Hudson]

 

Well I got there late in the day and every single inch of the tables was still covered with blades: once they spread them out it looks like even more blades.

 

I did get that pistol shown on one table. It was mislabeled as a 1918 Spanish flare pistol but in fact is a WWI French flare gun created specifically for aviators. I've posted more pictures of it here: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...howtopic=107178

 

 

As for the blades: i was shocked at how many were left. They were mostly non-US but there were still plenty of US bayonets left ranging from 1870s/1880s trapdoor bayos, to M4's. The obvious treasures were snapped up early (people started lining up at midnight for a sale that didn't start until 9AM and this was on a cul-de-sac in a quiet residential neighborhood).

 

The prices were a bit on the high side for an estate sale and were not at all attractive to a dealer and were really high enough to discourage even collectors who might have otherwise bought something unfamiliar. At these prices you would stick with the known quantities. Considering that most people interested in a sale like this will show early and on the first day, I suspect they will have a lot of blades left on Sunday. They may do some discounting then, but even then I think it will be tough to find buyers for most of these. The estate operators will email me when they find out what kind of discount the family will allow and I'll post that Saturday night in case anyone in Southern California is interested in making the trek to Rancho Bernardo.

 

By the way, this is a regular estate sale and the rest of the house is full of the normal items of the elderly woman (that's right woman) who collected these. She had them all hanging on the walls in her family room.

 

It was really run to watch people showing up for the "normal stuff" walk into the weapons room. They did a second double take when informed that it was a woman's collection.

[Bob Hudson]

The sellers called me today and said they will cut prices in half on Sunday April 16. Here's the info http://www.rbestateservices.com/page2.html

[Bob Hudson]

Did anyone else get to this?

[Bob Hudson]

Well I went back Sunday afternoon and picked up a few things:

 

 

If there's a sleeper in there these may be worth more than I paid for them. Everything was half-price and the very nice ladies running the sale kept insisting they were "dealer prices" but every time I looked up something it was priced about the same as or even more than the similar thing on Ebay. I basically decided to roll the dice and just buy some inexpensive interesting pieces (and one over-priced interesting piece).

 

The piece I know I paid too much for is a Japanese bayonet that some GI had adapted to use a US belt hanger:

 

 

 

When I left the sale Sunday they probably had less than 100 of the original 300 bayonets and swords they started with on Friday so they did very well in terms of sales. I think a lot went to collectors, but as I noticed they sold a lot to people who hadn't a clue. I helped one woman pick out a couple to give to her husband for a birthday gift. He did not collect but she thought they'd make neat guy gifts. I picked out a nice late 19th century French bayonet for her: those have a very clear stylish writing on them with the date engrave in large letters show so all you have to do is pull out of the scabbard but and impress people with the 1873 (or whatever) date.

 

I'm sure we'll see a bunch of over-priced blades showing up on Ebay this week from speculators who don't know blades but figured old military weapons have to be worth a lot more than estate sale prices.

 

Ironically I did pick up the one real sleeper of the sale: that aviator's flare gun. It had been mistakenly labeled as Spanish and apparently priced based on a guess. It turns out the retail value of it is perhaps three times what I paid for it, so that was nice to learn.

 

Again, it was a lot of fun to just hang around and listen to the reactions from members of the public who came to the estate sale not knowing it had a room full of weapons (someone who knew the deceased said she had that room added on just to display the weapons).

 

Well now I need to spend a whole lot of time figuring out what I bought. I did get a Sheffield machete, only because I had never seen a Sheffield machete before until I bought a wood-handled one at another estate sale. Now I have two.

 

I got a Conetta bayonet with stacked leather handle. I've heard these were experimental.

 

I had planned to spend about three times as much as I did but prices and/or condition issues didn't justify that, but hey it was fun.

[bayonetman]

The Conetta leather handled bayonet is actually commercial but an interesting item nonetheless.

 

I don' know about the Japanese bayonet with the altered scabbard attachment. During the Korean War some Japanese Type 99 7.7mm rifles were re-chambered to .30-06 and possibly issued to some 2nd line Korean troops. It is not IMPOSSIBLE that the scabbard was altered to fit the US style belt to go with these rifles as I know they were issued with bayonets. I have seen a couple of different scabbard modifications, none exactly like this but it MAY be a Korean alteration to use with the modified rifles.

[Bob Hudson]

The Conetta leather handled bayonet is actually commercial but an interesting item nonetheless.

 

I don' know about the Japanese bayonet with the altered scabbard attachment. During the Korean War some Japanese Type 99 7.7mm rifles were re-chambered to .30-06 and possibly issued to some 2nd line Korean troops. It is not IMPOSSIBLE that the scabbard was altered to fit the US style belt to go with these rifles as I know they were issued with bayonets. I have seen a couple of different scabbard modifications, none exactly like this but it MAY be a Korean alteration to use with the modified rifles.

 

My thought on the Japanese bayonet is that someone converted it just to carry it as a blade, nor for use on a rifle.

 

On the Conetta, I've seen variations of this story used by one Ebay seller, "The bayonet is referenced in Coles Book IV page 119 as being made at the Rock Island Arsenal Rodman Laboratory in 1975. The blade is a Conetta Mark 2 blade and fitted with the standard M7 Guard and pommel latch to fit the military rifle of the day."

 

Did that turn out to be a myth or is he misinterpreting Coles?

 

thanks...

 

I did find out that I am now the proud owner of a 1950's Egyptian Hakim bayonet and a 1903 British Enfield bayo for the East India Railway Regiment and a 1950's British bayonet.

[doyler]

My thought on the Japanese bayonet is that someone converted it just to carry it as a blade, nor for use on a rifle.

 

On the Conetta, I've seen variations of this story used by one Ebay seller, "The bayonet is referenced in Coles Book IV page 119 as being made at the Rock Island Arsenal Rodman Laboratory in 1975. The blade is a Conetta Mark 2 blade and fitted with the standard M7 Guard and pommel latch to fit the military rifle of the day."

 

Did that turn out to be a myth or is he misinterpreting Coles?

 

thanks...

 

I did find out that I am now the proud owner of a 1950's Egyptian Hakim bayonet and a 1903 British Enfield bayo for the East India Railway Regiment and a 1950's British bayonet.

 

I believe Siam may have used some of the Arisaka bayos as well.But BMs statement about the Korean use is very true.I dont really see a soldier taking the time to add the other metal piece in the scabbard loop to support the scabbard.

 

Looks like you have a Ross bayonet in a Krag scabbard??

 

I believe there are many "myths" in Coles book that have been re-addressed and corrected.Think OSS machete

[Manchu Warrior]

I believe Siam may have used some of the Arisaka bayos as well.But BMs statement about the Korean use is very true.I dont really see a soldier taking the time to add the other metal piece in the scabbard loop to support the scabbard.

 

Looks like you have a Ross bayonet in a Krag scabbard??

 

I believe there are many "myths" in Coles book that have been re-addressed and corrected.Think OSS machete

I am no expert but it looks like that it is possibly a Type 2 Lee-Metford bayonet in the Krag scabbard.

[doyler]

I am no expert but it looks like that it is possibly a Type 2 Lee-Metford bayonet in the Krag scabbard.

 

 

Could be Im not up on the Commonwealth variations :thumbsup:

[Bob Hudson]

Could be Im not up on the Commonwealth variations :thumbsup:

 

That is an 1888 model Wilkinson-made British bayonet and the scabbard does appear to be Krag: I assume someone else went home with a Krag bayonet in a British scabbard

[Frank Trzaska]

Bayonetman is correct as usual. The Conetta is a fantasy piece. Conetta sold off all of their old parts, blades, guards, washers, latch plates etc sometime in the 1980's. A large gun dealership located in New Jersey purchased the parts and had the bayonets assembled from these parts. I watched them being made, they have nothing to do with Conetta.

 

The bayonet is very real, it is for the Rifle, U.S., Type 99, Japanese Cal. .30. In 1950 the ROK forces needed weapons immediately, in the US Far East Command there were a large surplus of Japanese Type 99 rifles stored but very little ammo. It was decided for logistic purposes to rechamber the rifles to fire the then current 30.06 M2 cartridges in abundance. Accuracy would be affected with a .308 bullet firing in a .311 bore but the rifles could be supplied fast so MacArthur signed the consent and coded it Secret. In 1951 a Technical manual was created for issue to the troops so I guess the secret was out by then. Along with the rifles the U.S. had in storage in Japan large quantities of M1923 rifle and M1936 pistol belts to be issued to the ROk Army working as KATUSA (Korean Augmentation of the U.S. Army). In order to carry the Japanese bayonets 4 conversations were tested with the material frog as you have selected as the fast, easy way to convert. Thousands were converted for use during the war.

 

What is interesting in these are the materials used and the variations, I have seven different patterns to the webbing. Differences in color, weave, width, rivets, snaps and stitching appear. The bayonets and scabbards all seem to be of the best available at the time. I have not seen any made with the so called "Last Ditch" bayonets or scabbards. None of the wood or rubber covered scabbards have been observed.

 

A little known but absolute U.S. weapon.

 

All the best

Frank Trzaska

[gunbarrel]

Fascinating information, Frank. Thanks for sharing it with us. :thumbsup:

[RustyCanteen]

The '88 is for a "Long Lee" .303 Enfield, then after the Arisaka bayonet is a Hakim bayonet (like the Swedish but with wood grips). Another Brit blade and a No. 9 blade bayonet for a No. 4 Mk I (or II) Enfield, it should be dated, probably from the 1960s.

 

Nice buy.

[Bob Hudson]

Bayonetman is correct as usual. The Conetta is a fantasy piece. Conetta sold off all of their old parts, blades, guards, washers, latch plates etc sometime in the 1980's. A large gun dealership located in New Jersey purchased the parts and had the bayonets assembled from these parts. I watched them being made, they have nothing to do with Conetta.

 

The bayonet is very real, it is for the Rifle, U.S., Type 99, Japanese Cal. .30. In 1950 the ROK forces needed weapons immediately, in the US Far East Command there were a large surplus of Japanese Type 99 rifles stored but very little ammo. It was decided for logistic purposes to rechamber the rifles to fire the then current 30.06 M2 cartridges in abundance. Accuracy would be affected with a .308 bullet firing in a .311 bore but the rifles could be supplied fast so MacArthur signed the consent and coded it Secret. In 1951 a Technical manual was created for issue to the troops so I guess the secret was out by then. Along with the rifles the U.S. had in storage in Japan large quantities of M1923 rifle and M1936 pistol belts to be issued to the ROk Army working as KATUSA (Korean Augmentation of the U.S. Army). In order to carry the Japanese bayonets 4 conversations were tested with the material frog as you have selected as the fast, easy way to convert. Thousands were converted for use during the war.

 

What is interesting in these are the materials used and the variations, I have seven different patterns to the webbing. Differences in color, weave, width, rivets, snaps and stitching appear. The bayonets and scabbards all seem to be of the best available at the time. I have not seen any made with the so called "Last Ditch" bayonets or scabbards. None of the wood or rubber covered scabbards have been observed.

 

A little known but absolute U.S. weapon.

 

All the best

Frank Trzaska

 

Thanks so much Frank -

 

I never would have guessed that a Japanese bayonet was official US issue! This converted bayonet has the Tokyo/Kokura Arsenal mark:

 

 

As for the "Conetta bayonet" - well here's some photos for the record and hopefully this thread will show up in the search engines ahead of the web pages that ID this as a Rock Island experiment:

 

[RustyCanteen]

Must be an early Krag scabbard to be able to rotate that much!

[Cal30M1]

Is it wrong that I want that Conetta? :think:

 

How much?

 

Neat stuff for sure.

[Bob Hudson]

Is it wrong that I want that Conetta? :think:

 

How much?

 

Neat stuff for sure.

 

It is for sale., but no where near what this one sold for on Ebay recently: