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M1937 Officer's Emblems Manufactured By Them


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Howdy Boys.......It's been a bit slow in the discussion part of the EGA Discussion group so I thought I'd try to spark a debate. We've exchanged a lot of info about H&H but we admit we still have questions over the what, when, where and why some things show up. So I pulled out a few examples of the lovely M-37 Officer's Service Hat insignia for a look-see.

 

No. 1 is marked "sterling over the H-H logo with the "H's outside the bird, on the reverse left eagle wing. It features a dished out reverse with a square rope retainer on the left anchor fluke. The color is gun-metal blue.The eagle's wings are clearly bent to the rear. The anchor rope shows signs of having been soldered to to the anchor crown.

 

No. 2 is also marked H-H but in a larger stamping with the "H"s inside the bird, stamped on the anchor shank near the tip. It also has a small 'Imperial' hallmark on the anchor stock, upside down and very hard to make out even with a 10X loop. The construction of this piece has a fully solid reverse. Rope fouling is identicle to No. 1. The rope retainer is also square but more narrow. The color is a dark bronze. The globe and continents appear identicle on both. I believe both of these insignia date from the late 1930's to the end of WWII. The use of the "Imperial" mark is not accurately dated but that badge appears to have some of the earlier characteristics found on the M1926 pattern insignia. Two more M1937 Offiser's service insignia follow.

 

H_H_Sterling_Mark_OBV.JPG H_H_Sterling_Mark_Rev.JPG

 

H_H_Imperial_Mark_OBV.JPGH_H_Imperial_Mark_REV.JPG

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"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (Message sent by 1st Lt. Clifton B. Cates. USMC, 96th Co., Soissons, 19 July 1918 - later 19th Commandant of the Marine Corps 1948-1952)

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The next two insignia appear from the front to be typical H&H production but they are not marked by H&H.

 

No. 3 is the same as No. 1. A dished out reverse. Square anchor chain retainer. Indenticle rope fouling. Chain retainer is square. Chain is soldered to the the tip of the anchor crown. Wings are flat, not bent at all. On the left reverse wing appears the stamp "Sterling By Blackinton". The color is gunmetal.

 

No. 4 also has a dished out reverse as in No.1 and No. 3. The anchor chain fouling is also identicle ending in a square chain retainer. The chain is soldered to the anchor crown with a fairly large glob. the insignia is marked on the reverse left wing "Sterling" over "Pasquale". The color is washed out silver. The globe and continets are identicle to the other three.

 

So....all this leads me to believe that Hilborne-Hamburger was a contractor for these insignia marketed by Blackinton and Pasquale. I have always thought of Blackinton as a manufacturer/retailer and Pasquale as a retailer only. I believe that insignias 1.3 and 4 were made during the war and that No. 2 was made around 1937 but before 1942, just based on how the 4 insignia compare. So.....let's have a discussion! semper Fi, y'all....................bobgee

 

 

Sterling_by_Blackinton_OBV.JPGSterling_by_Blackinton_REV.JPG

 

Sterling_by_Pasquale_OBV.JPGSterling_by_Blackinton_REV.JPG

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"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (Message sent by 1st Lt. Clifton B. Cates. USMC, 96th Co., Soissons, 19 July 1918 - later 19th Commandant of the Marine Corps 1948-1952)

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Bob,

 

I think you posted the Blackinton reverse twice. Can we see the reverse of the Pasquale? The Pasquale hallmark is a new one for me in this pattern and I'm guessing that if we looked more closely at what we assume to be standard Hillborn & Hamburger emblems, we're going to find more than just these H&H, H&H Imperial, Blackinton and Pasquale made pieces. I'm guessing H&H loaned out their dies to other companies, mostly likely during WWII, when the demand for insignia was high. My guess would also date the Blackinton and Pasquale to straight-up WWII.

 

Here's another one to throw into the fray. This emblem was gifted to me by Jeremiah several months back because he understands my total fetish for all WWII emblems, and as you can see, the identical same pattern as your beautiful emblems shown. It sure looks like the H&H pattern to me, but all comments and opinions are very much welcome. Darrell guessed maybe prototype emblem, but my guess is just a very inexpensive private purchase piece sold during WWII, much like the EM Econo-Leads? This emblem is devoid of any and all hallmarks and appears to be made of a zinc alloy. If anyone is familiar with Third Reich "mid to late war" award badges, this emblem is very similar in construction, wear and corrosion. I'm also guessing that this "bird" never made it to the Pacific, because of it had, I believe the humidity and heat would have totally destroyed it. Also note the aluminum alloy roller nut that also mirrors the brass H&H type.

 

s/f, Gary

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**PLEASE NOTE: THIS COMMUNITY MEMBER HAS SADLY PASSED AWAY**

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/15996-please-read-gary-mohrlang-glm/

 

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Here's the correct 'Sterling' over 'Pasquale' reverse. Sorry about that. And also that the pic of the logo is so weak. Gary, you believe that H&H "loaned" out their dies to other companies. I just can't get my head around that. I believe that H&H "made" the insignia with the marks requested. I just can't see a big outfit like Hilborne-Hamburger shipping their dies, a most valuble commodity, out of their factory, across country for use by some other company. Just doesn't sound like a good business practice. That's why I lean towards H&H as a contractor. That's my 2 cents!

S/F....Bobgee

 

Sterling_by_Pasquale_REV.JPG

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"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (Message sent by 1st Lt. Clifton B. Cates. USMC, 96th Co., Soissons, 19 July 1918 - later 19th Commandant of the Marine Corps 1948-1952)

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Gary...........Looking at the emblem you posted, I feel that it was also made by H&H on their dies, in their factory. It certainly has all the of the H&H characteristics.

 

Now, your comments about the cheap material used does suggest 'war economy' of the time. Also, all insignia was made in both 'precious' metals and in common metals, plated to meet the regulations. I imagine as the war wore on these metals were less available. Sterling Silver insignia also cost more. Some GIs didn't care what kind of metal was used for their badges. . Others did. And we're speaking of officers mostly who had to buy their 'kit' including all badges. Some went 'uptown'. Others were cheap, buying plain vanilla, just the basics. That's why we so many intersting variations which interest us as collectors nearly 70 years later. To them, I think, a badge was a badge was a badge!

 

I think your EGA was so low on Hilborn-Hamburger's quality scale that they may purposefully not marked it with their logo. Maybe it was made for a retailer of uniforms, etc. who did not want it marked. I also agree that it was probably 'late war' (not a term usually found in a U.S. insignia discussion.) Only a thought. Wouldn't it wonderful to have all the H&H files from their era to study????? S/F......Bob

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"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (Message sent by 1st Lt. Clifton B. Cates. USMC, 96th Co., Soissons, 19 July 1918 - later 19th Commandant of the Marine Corps 1948-1952)

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Interesting topic continues... looked thru mine for a variation not listed / shown yet and found this H&H / Imperial. I find merit in ALL the differing perspectives on this pattern, its existence and so forth. I am inclined to believe the H&H folks did produce their emblem for others, with "the others" hallmark, simply because the Blackington or Pasquale emblems are not seen often, and the pattern is virtually identical. While perhaps the other players in the market place such as Meyer or Vanguard simply choose not to compete for these same numbers or lacked the foundry space to produce for others.

 

I do find the "cheap" ones a perplexing scenario, with no hallmarks and or those with numbers incised in various locations. Perhaps some dies did "escape" the factory in the lunch box of a disgruntled employee.

 

Final thought, while the H&H emblem(s) front remain identical in character... the reverse side has subtle differences more often than not. Very puzzling think.gif

H_H_imperial.jpg


The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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Here's a side-by-side of the fronts of three of the 'birds'. On the left is the 'Sterling' over 'Pasquale'; in the center is the 'Sterling' over 'H-H' and on the right is the 'Sterling by Blackinton" . I think this pic gives good views of the construction and manufacture of these insignia. The Cardinal-like head; puffed chest; big three-toed claws; shape of the anchors, positioning of the fouled chain..........Again, I think Hilborn-Hamburger made all three......S/f....Bob

 

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"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (Message sent by 1st Lt. Clifton B. Cates. USMC, 96th Co., Soissons, 19 July 1918 - later 19th Commandant of the Marine Corps 1948-1952)

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  • 1 month later...

Does anyone recall seeing a set of Vanguard dress emblems before... here is a set w/ single hallmark on the anchor stock. This set was recently offered at auction and failed to make reserve. Have searhed posts yet cannot find and Vanguard or having simply overlooked. Cannot makeout the hallmark on the collar emblem... the configuration of these emblems looks remarkably like others and yet cannot figure it out. Perhaps late WW2 or thereafter? Thouhgts....?

ww2_vanguard_front.jpg


The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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Vanguard has been in business since 1918 and is a prolific maker of modern day EGA's but the only mark I have ever seen is a plain "V"." Among the many things on my to do list is to contact companies such as Vanguard to see if they have any historical records and/or photographs of old production. Vanguard is located a few miles from me so it would be nice to find they had some materials on hand.

 

Here is one of their current officers cap devices:

 

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  • 3 months later...

Fellow forum members:

 

You are in the EGA "reference section". This area is were posts from the EGA "discussion section" are moved for permanent retention and education about the history of the Eagle, Globe and Anchor. As time moves forward there maybe additional information the EGA Moderators wish to add or will add to this specific post. We ask for your input as well.

 

We encourage further comments about this post and its content. In order to do so, you will need to start a new post in the "EGA discussion area" which is listed in the main page under insignia. And as needed we will be pleased to move any new and or valued information that is derived from your post (and subsequent comments) into this reference area as its own standing post.

 

Please be advised; posting and or editing is restricted on this post to moderator's and forum staff


The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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