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Fake Vietnam Uniforms


gwb123
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This fake HK made shirt sold for $99.00 on ebay in september 2006. It was advertised as a repro. I did not keep other pics except this one, but it is frightening enough. It looks terribly realistic. crying.gif

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here is another phony from the same seller I posted the Class A jacket from Gunbroker.com

 

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Bonjour,

It's clear, it's wrong for a VN era jacket but it sounds good for an early 80's. Is it a put together?

Cheers

Valery

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hochiminhtrail

hy beezman the shirt is a nightmare for all collectors, the tailor tag is well done as well as all the other sweeing

 

 

Alex

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hochiminhtrail

one more question, is the shirt original?

 

cheers

 

alex

Beezman, Alex,

 

This is another photo of that shirt.

 

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A nightmare...

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Here is what the ebay listing said:

 

You are bidding on a BRAND NEW, HIGH QUALITY REPRO of

 

ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam)

 

59 pattern OD colour uniform set

 

"US-M or US-L"

 

The cut of shirt is 5 exposed button closure front, two chest pockets, reinforced shoulder's with epaulets and reinforce elbows.

 

The pants have two front and two rear pockets, button fly and reinforced knees.

 

"Vietnam Tailor Made Style"

 

Light weight cotton material, perfect wear in summer

 

The shirt and pants are 100% Brand New, never worn or wash and both items are also have Repro bevo Vietnam Tailor Tag attached !!

 

Quang Chau Tailor

 

37 NG. V. Thinh Saigon

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hy beezman the shirt is a nightmare for all collectors, the tailor tag is well done as well as all the other sweeing

 

 

Alex

 

 

I think if you look well the buttons, you can be sure that is not an official issued shirt from the ARVN. The use of the Tailor tag will justify that we don't have standard issued buttons :lol:

 

Cheers

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Bonjour,

It's clear, it's wrong for a VN era jacket but it sounds good for an early 80's. Is it a put together?

Cheers

Valery

 

Valery, I know what you are saying, but just from the photos I have doubts about this one.

 

VN issue jungle jackets were indeed worn in the 1980's by units that could expect service in hot weather climates. And I have seen them from the 82nd from that period. But by that time period the remaining issue stocks were ripstop, not poplin. Its possible someone could have bought a poplin jacket from a surplus store and updated it with their current insignia. This was often done by ROTC students, but I think a less common practice for active duty soldiers.

 

What bothers me is the very uneven wear on the insignia. The name and US Army tape seem to match, but that is about it. The shoulder sleeve insignia look like they have been resewn and transferred from another uniform. This is supposed to be for an officer... are we to say he could not afford $2 to $3 for new patches?

 

None of the qualification patches match. Granted, they could all have been earned at different times. The Airborne wing looks to be made on 100% cotton cloth, while the EIB is on synthetic. For a young officer in the 1980's most of the insignia available would have been on the OG-107 synthetic blend material. (And yes, I am sure some of the old cotton insignia were still around.)

 

The other thing that bothers me... it took time to earn all of these qualifications. I knew soldiers who earned their Airborne Wings and Ranger tab while in ROTC and had them before they were commissioned. I also knew others that earned an Air Assault badge. But normally they did not have all three before going on active duty. And usually the EIB would be earned on active duty while actually assigned to an Infantry unit. To my mind in most cases you would not see this number of qualification badges until the officer had been in long enough to be promoted to 1st Lieutenant, which I believe is about 2 years.

 

The exception to this would be a soldier who served as an Enlisted Man before accepting his commission. But if that were the case, I would still expect to see the insignia looking closer for the level of wear and tear.

 

I think this one fails muster.

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DEAR GIL

 

THIS BEOGAM SHIRT IS EXTREMELY HARD FIND PATTERN VERY EARLY CISO MADE,

WITH ACTUALLY MADE PATCHES I BELIVE IS THAI MADE PATCHES

 

REGARDS JEROME

 

Jerome sent some additional notes on this sharp looking BEOGAM pattern shirt with the matching insignia.

 

He clarified that he knows for a fact it was a post war made dressed up uniform. Apparently the shirt is real, and quite rare. The insignia have been added made from a cut up pair of pants.

 

The top end fake artists will often take a piece of clothing that is rare itself and add to it. Why sell a $50 fake when for the same effort you can sell a $350 fake!

 

Thanks for posting this Jerome!

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4e_12.jpg

This fake HK made shirt sold for $99.00 on ebay in september 2006. It was advertised as a repro. I did not keep other pics except this one, but it is frightening enough. It looks terribly realistic. crying.gif

 

A very scary repro. I hope whoever bought it realized what they are getting.

 

One thing that bothered me... The US Army Airborne tab over the ARVN Airborne Division shoulder patch. I don't believe this tab was worn this way.

 

I paged through Mike Martin's Angels with Red Hats and Rottman's Vietnam Airborne. I don't believe the Airborne tab was ever worn that way. There were plenty of photos showing US Advisors wearing RANGER tabs over the ARVN Airborne patch, but not the Airborne tab.

 

Also, as authentic as the shirt looks, the tailor's tab looks too low in the yoke of the garment. Most tailors labels that I have seen have been higher, normally right below where the seam line is for the collar.

 

And lastly, did US Advisors wear the OD version of this shirt? The books listed above show plenty of examples of the Advisors wearing ARVN Airborne camo, but not the OD.

 

I am sure we will see more well made fakes coming out of Hong Kong and also Japan. Japan reportedly has a very active Vietnam reenacting community, and I believe some of their reproduction uniforms have already made it to the US market as "orignals".

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Jerome sent some additional notes on this sharp looking BEOGAM pattern shirt with the matching insignia.

 

He clarified that he knows for a fact it was a post war made dressed up uniform. Apparently the shirt is real, and quite rare. The insignia have been added made from a cut up pair of pants.

 

The top end fake artists will often take a piece of clothing that is rare itself and add to it. Why sell a $50 fake when for the same effort you can sell a $350 fake!

 

Thanks for posting this Jerome!

 

 

Hi Gil

 

I m looking for the last buy of a great fake maker on ebay and what i find this guy buy a great piece of leopard twill

I believe that we will be able to see on ebay in short time some green berets with leopard liner or other exotic stuffs

 

Cheers Jerome

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And probably some Vietnam style bush hats in this pattern, the last vintage one was sold for 190usd. It's funny that we will have fake SF berets lined with material supposed to be woman undergarment crying.gif

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And probably some Vietnam style bush hats in this pattern, the last vintage one was sold for 190usd. It's funny that we will have fake SF berets lined with material supposed to be woman undergarment crying.gif

 

HOOPS MAYBE YOUR MOTHER UNDERWEAR CHEEKY BOOM !!!!!!!

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HOOPS MAYBE YOUR MOTHER UNDERWEAR CHEEKY BOOM !!!!!!!

 

 

OR YOUR TRANSVESTIZZZZ HOBBY BUFFALO BILL " YOU LIKE SMELL OF LEOPARD IN THE MORNING "

 

WU I FOUND YOUR S IN THE BOULOGNE FOREST !!!!!!!!

post-1486-1194206343.jpg

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OR YOUR TRANSVESTIZZZZ HOBBY BUFFALO BILL " YOU LIKE SMELL OF LEOPARD IN THE MORNING "

 

WU I FOUND YOUR S IN THE BOULOGNE FOREST !!!!!!!!

 

Is this Pascal's spare underwear ? He will surely need it next time we will meet in flesh ! evilgrin.gif

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Valery, I know what you are saying, but just from the photos I have doubts about this one.

 

VN issue jungle jackets were indeed worn in the 1980's by units that could expect service in hot weather climates. And I have seen them from the 82nd from that period. But by that time period the remaining issue stocks were ripstop, not poplin. Its possible someone could have bought a poplin jacket from a surplus store and updated it with their current insignia. This was often done by ROTC students, but I think a less common practice for active duty soldiers.

 

What bothers me is the very uneven wear on the insignia. The name and US Army tape seem to match, but that is about it. The shoulder sleeve insignia look like they have been resewn and transferred from another uniform. This is supposed to be for an officer... are we to say he could not afford $2 to $3 for new patches?

 

None of the qualification patches match. Granted, they could all have been earned at different times. The Airborne wing looks to be made on 100% cotton cloth, while the EIB is on synthetic. For a young officer in the 1980's most of the insignia available would have been on the OG-107 synthetic blend material. (And yes, I am sure some of the old cotton insignia were still around.)

 

The other thing that bothers me... it took time to earn all of these qualifications. I knew soldiers who earned their Airborne Wings and Ranger tab while in ROTC and had them before they were commissioned. I also knew others that earned an Air Assault badge. But normally they did not have all three before going on active duty. And usually the EIB would be earned on active duty while actually assigned to an Infantry unit. To my mind in most cases you would not see this number of qualification badges until the officer had been in long enough to be promoted to 1st Lieutenant, which I believe is about 2 years.

 

The exception to this would be a soldier who served as an Enlisted Man before accepting his commission. But if that were the case, I would still expect to see the insignia looking closer for the level of wear and tear.

 

I think this one fails muster.

 

I understand your well-reasoned skepticism however there is the possibility, as you pointed out, that this man was enlisted before being commissioned. If that is true, then everything else could be correct. The only thing then that would be slightly suspect in my mind, would be the early-to-mid-60's rifles.

 

As I understand it, it wasn't unusual for newer personnel to seek salty uniforms such as this one, usually from other people who were leaving the service. Any of the badges could theoretically have been left on, if that was the case.

 

Also, I've seen authentic field-grade officers' BDU's which had badges that had been re-used and were well-worn.

 

I have a CWO-1 BDU top which has a substantial number of badges, but then again the soldier was probably formerly enlisted.

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I'll bet anything they are mass produced and you'll start seeing them on alot of ebay uniforms....

 

Page back on this same thread. That is the same label that was in the ARVN Advisors Shirt. Of course we will see more of these, just the way that you see the same maker's labels in ARVN berets over and over again.

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Here's a Grade A pieced together fake that was recently purchased. The Buyer started to look at it and then got suspicious.

 

Some of the red flags:

 

The patches were all sewn on with a synthetic OD thread with the identical stitch. The color of the thread also was not correct for a military shade.

 

On the name tapes there were broken remains of another shade of thread that indicated they had been sewn on another shirt. This is supposed to be for an E-8. Even if he had transferred the tapes from another uniform, a soldier of that stature would have picked out the old threads. (To my eye, these look post war PX made. The squared off letters of the US Army tape look like they have been made by a computer or pattern guided sewing machine.)

 

Photos of the inside of the jacket show that despite being loosely sewn on, the patches have not been on long enough to leave an impression in the cloth. In other words, these patches have not been worn or pressed into the garment as you would see on an actually used uniform.

 

The buyer of this item started to question if an E-8 would actually wear a reversed 1st CAV patch on his right shoulder. If anything an E-8 would set the example for proper wear of the uniform and would have worn the standard issue insignia.

 

The buyer removed the reversed 1st CAV patch and to his surprise found black paper glued to the back of it. This would be typical of a patch that had been pasted to a scrapbook. There is no logical reason as to why this would appear on a patch actually sewn on a uniform.

 

The 7th CAV pocket patch was also a shocker... it was glued to the pocket! I've seen patches glued before, but this is more typical of USAF fatigue uniforms rather than the Army. And even when glued, they were still stitched.

 

The buyer who shared this with me noted that the listing in eBay merely listed the basics such as "Cav patch right sleeve, Sgt. stripes both sleeves, name tapes, ..." without making claims that it was authentic. When the buyer provided negative feedback, the seller repsonded with "You have complained about nothing..."

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Note the black paper on the back of the reversed 1st CAV patches. This patch has been removed from a scrapbook and used to spice up this uniform.

 

Looking at the threads on this one, it may very well be a period Japanese made souvenir patch. However such patches were never authorized for wear and an E-8 would have not only set the example, but also enforced the policy.

 

It is probable that this whole jacket is a fabrication. One thing to watch for is jackets in odd sizes... such as this Long Medium. Unissued jackets seem to turn up in unused condition in less common sizes. This makes them a favorite of repro artists. It is easier to piece together a fake with a new or near new uniform than it is with one that has been worn, faded, and has marks from previous patches.

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It is also odd than an Airborne qualified E-8 with a previous tour in the 1st Cav never had a chance to get a CIB, although this is possible.

Concerning the glued pocket patch, it reminded me of an active ebay seller who probably does not have a sewing machine, and ruins jungle jackets with glued patches (in the beginning he used original patches, now he glues copies).

The guy is 1969gtojudge; he has sold his junk to quite a few French collectors (me included). We have nicknamed him "Charlie la colle", which could be translated as "Glu Charlie". Beware his fuzzy pics taken with a lousy webcam, you will find out about the glued patches only when you open the package! Of course he doesn't take Paypal, which makes refunds practically impossible for non-US buyers.

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