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DCU 1st Cavalry Uniform Question


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I actually know Nick, probably a lot of G2 Soldiers who rotated through MND-B have met him. this is kinda of a rare pic of him he generally did not wear a uniform. A great asset and a hell of a man.

 

Very glad I posted this because of your service connection. I have a hi-res of this if you want it. I had to save this for the web which reduces the details greatly. Just PM me and I'll send it.

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Thought I would add a few more images documenting reversed patches being worn 04-05. You see a lot of interesting stuff going on with uniforms during this time frame.

 

Lt. Col Dan Hendrickson (left), commander of the 2nd Battalion, 162nd Infantry of the 39th Brigade Combat Team (U.S. Army photo by Staff Sgt. Rebekah-mae Bruns, 39th Brigade Combat Team Public Affairs)

Is the LTC awarding that guy the Combat Infantry Badge? It doesn't appear to be sewn on his uniform but just sitting there or maybe pinned. If so, did they only give them a subdued patch and not the actual badge?

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Is the LTC awarding that guy the Combat Infantry Badge? It doesn't appear to be sewn on his uniform but just sitting there or maybe pinned. If so, did they only give them a subdued patch and not the actual badge?

 

It's held on by a large safety pin, so yes, he's is being awarded his CIB by the LTC. The badge actually appears to be a locally produced one too, probably from Iraq. I'm sure he also got the metal badge as well at some point.

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It's held on by a large safety pin, so yes, he's is being awarded his CIB by the LTC. The badge actually appears to be a locally produced one too, probably from Iraq. I'm sure he also got the metal badge as well at some point.

 

 

Same series and spot on.

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I was going through my desert patch box this evening and ran across a stash of 1st Cav patches. I found one of the reversed patches and thought you guys might like to see it. I know I have several of the reversed patched DCU's in my collection as well.

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Always looking for US and foreign militaria from the Central American wars circa 1970-1990

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Backs. BTW...it is not your imagination. One of the patches is larger than the other.

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Always looking for US and foreign militaria from the Central American wars circa 1970-1990

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Great information and photos guys. Looks to me like these Dcu's are out there with the reverse 1st cavalry and reversed 2nd Inf. Div patches but are harder to find then the regular patch. the fact they were used in Iraq only in 2004-2005 and removed upon return to the USA makes them harder to find especially still attached to the Dcu. The one I purchased was obtained from a large amount of 1st cavalry Dcu's dated from before 2004 and this was the only one with the reversed patch.

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I officialy recieved the authorization to wear my 1st Cav combat patch from my battalion commander on June 14, 2004 and the patch presented to us by the colonel was a reversed cut edge SSI. (It didnt look localy made but didn't look American made either). We were left to our own devices to aquire patches for our remaining 3 issued DCUs which meant that some soldiers purchased theatre made reverse combat patches from Hajji shops, some sewed on regular patches, and a lot of people sewed on other unit patches we were authorized so that they would look cooler. I remember at the time that a lot of us didnt like the look of the theater made patches and preferred the standard American made patch-looking back now as a collecter I find that funny. I will try to post a picture later of the patch I was presented in Iraq, but for the record the reverse combat patch was given to me by a LtCol. and I saw it worn all tthe way up the chain of command. As far as the wearing of DCU's, the only time 1st Cav was deployed as a division while wearing DCU's was during OIF II 2004-2005. Certain aviation units took part in OIF I but they were small in number and attached to other units.

 

As for the CIB, when I was presented mine the same LtCol and our Sgt Major pinned a full color CIB to the pocket flap of our DCUs and after formation it was placed in its proper position the hard way by the rest of the platoon. After we removed the pins from our chest we placed the backings on the post and we were allowed to wear the CIB like that for the rest of the day or until our next patrol, whichever came first. We weren't issued any cloth DCU CIBs so most of us purchased them from the PX at a later date or bought locally made ones. I personally sewed my combat patches and CIB's to my uniform which gives them a somewhat put together look, but most people got them sewed on at the laundry connex.

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Re: post 32:

 

Check paragraphs 3, 4 and 5 of ALARACT 030/2005, 6 FEB 06: www.armyg1.army.mil/hr/uniform/docs/ALARACT%20030-2006.pdf which emphasize the prohibition of wearing the reverse image ("mirror image") patches. Not sure if there was other guidance prior to this ALARACT.

 

Hope that helps,

Steve

I remember:

Chris Ingrassia (9/11) CPT Tristan Aitken (OIF, 2003)

MAJ Paul Syverson (OIF, 2004) CPT Tom Miller (OIF, 2005)

SSG Scottie Bright (OIF, 2005) CPT Chris Petty (OIF, 2006)

MAJ Hurley Shields (OIF, 2008)

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________


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I officialy recieved the authorization to wear my 1st Cav combat patch from my battalion commander on June 14, 2004 and the patch presented to us by the colonel was a reversed cut edge SSI. I remember at the time that a lot of us didnt like the look of the theater made patches and preferred the standard American made patch-looking back now as a collecter I find that funny. I will try to post a picture later of the patch I was presented in Iraq, but for the record the reverse combat patch was given to me by a LtCol. and I saw it worn all tthe way up the chain of command.

 

The problem with this is that your Battalion CO didn't have the authority to authorize anyone to wear it, nor did the division commander. From the story I got, the division leadership decided to use the reversed SSI, ordered them in mass quantities, then the division CG asked the G-1 for permission, which was denied. The reversed SSI are not officially approved insignia per IOH and, in some cases, heraldically incorrect. From your perspective, of course, the CO makes the rules, so when he says to wear something, you wear it.

 

I imagine the same thing happened over in 2d ID and anywhere else they tried out the reversed "combat patch" idea. The most ridiculous example of this I ever saw was at AUSA a couple of years ago. An officer with service in the BRO had on a "theater made" FWS-SSI that was a red one on a tan background....reversed. So the numeral 1 was actually backwards. I'm sure he went into a local shop and said "I need a combat patch", which to the Iraqi's meant: make it backwards. Oops.

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Well, there's some reversed patches in reality. It's not always common to see pictures, but there's some produced. Please see this link, where we posted some variants (wrong color, reversed,...) of desert patches.

 

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If you will, I'll search for other units using reversed patches.

"As you know, you go to war with the Army you have. They're not the Army you might want or wish to have at a later time. You can have all the armor in the world on a tank and it can (still) be blown up..." - Donald Rumsfeld (Camp Buehring, KU - Dec. 8, 2004)

See my current collection of desert SSI HERE
See my current collection of Badges (ranks, qualification badges, Branch of Service - from WW2 to present) HERE
See my files in PDF on scribd.com HERE
See my collection of jackets HERE

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Okay seriously this is the last one and perhaps one of the better ones.

 

Maj. Gen. Peter Chiarelli (left), 1st Cavalry Division commanding general, prepares for an interview with Amar Al-Joburi, of Iraqi satellite station Al Sharqiya, while interpreter Nick Cosma looks on at Camp Al-Tahreer Sept. 21. (U.S. Army photo by Spc. Andy Miller, 122nd Mobile Public Affairs Detachment).

 

Doesnt get much better than the commanding general wearing one. Note the contractor DCU.

Chiarelli also had the nametapes with English/Arabic. My Guys were getting screamed at by Various CSM's for wearing the same tapes & the reversed Cav with the Division Cdr sported them everywhere, go figure.

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The thinking behind reversing the patches is probably well-intentioned. When patches such as the 1st Cav, 2nd Inf. and 101st Airborne were designed, the concept of SSI-FWTS or combat patches didn't exist so the symbolism of wearing them backwards was not considered. And if you think about it, even though such patches have been worn backwards since the end of WWII, it really wasn't until the current War On Terror that you have had entire units simultaneously wearing their patches on both sleeves as now that there has been a widespread need for the reversed patches.

 

Despite not being heraldically correct, my best guess is that the issue will ultimately be addressed by the Institute Of Heraldry to deal with the reason behind the reversal of the patches. In other words, the members of the units in question probably don't like the fact their official insignia is backwards when worn on the right sleeve. Some DUI have already been designed this way so they are facing forward when worn on either shoulder. And the American flag is worn on the uniforms only one way to symbolize how it looks flapping in the wind.

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Checked all over the internet and can find no reference to the 101st Airborne using reverse patch in Iraq or anywhere else. I guess the 1st Cavalry and 2nd Infantry were the only ones who wore reversed patches in Iraq unless someone else knows different.

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I've never seen a reversed 101st Airborne patch before (at least that I remember). The person to ask would be Baker502. However, I did find this theatre made 101st ABN patch from my personal collection. As you can see, it is not reversed.

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Always looking for US and foreign militaria from the Central American wars circa 1970-1990

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The thinking behind reversing the patches is probably well-intentioned. When patches such as the 1st Cav, 2nd Inf. and 101st Airborne were designed, the concept of SSI-FWTS or combat patches didn't exist so the symbolism of wearing them backwards was not considered. And if you think about it, even though such patches have been worn backwards since the end of WWII, it really wasn't until the current War On Terror that you have had entire units simultaneously wearing their patches on both sleeves as now that there has been a widespread need for the reversed patches.

 

Despite not being heraldically correct, my best guess is that the issue will ultimately be addressed by the Institute Of Heraldry to deal with the reason behind the reversal of the patches. In other words, the members of the units in question probably don't like the fact their official insignia is backwards when worn on the right sleeve. Some DUI have already been designed this way so they are facing forward when worn on either shoulder. And the American flag is worn on the uniforms only one way to symbolize how it looks flapping in the wind.

 

They are not "backwards" when worn on the right shoulder. The insignia looks no different than it does when worn on the left shoulder. They are only backwards when one of these unapproved reversed designs is worn. All of this has happened before during the Vietnam War and there were limited attempts made then to wear reversed SSI-FWS, and all met with failure. IOH has addressed this many times and the approved design is the only correct orientation for the insignia. Of coarse, the whole point in the SSI-FWS was to recognize former wartime service, as in, the unit you were formerly in, not your current unit.

 

The backwards US flag is ridiculous. It is a violation of US code concerning the display of the flag. The field should always be to the upper left no matter how the flag is displayed. The "flapping in the wind" reasoning they applied to this is silly. The US flag was worn correctly oriented from WWII to Desert Shield until some genius decided they needed to change it. Hopefully someone in leadership will eventually correct this and the Army can stop breaking the law.

 

End of rant.

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The problem with this is that your Battalion CO didn't have the authority to authorize anyone to wear it, nor did the division commander. From the story I got, the division leadership decided to use the reversed SSI, ordered them in mass quantities, then the division CG asked the G-1 for permission, which was denied. The reversed SSI are not officially approved insignia per IOH and, in some cases, heraldically incorrect. From your perspective, of course, the CO makes the rules, so when he says to wear something, you wear it.

 

I imagine the same thing happened over in 2d ID and anywhere else they tried out the reversed "combat patch" idea. The most ridiculous example of this I ever saw was at AUSA a couple of years ago. An officer with service in the BRO had on a "theater made" FWS-SSI that was a red one on a tan background....reversed. So the numeral 1 was actually backwards. I'm sure he went into a local shop and said "I need a combat patch", which to the Iraqi's meant: make it backwards. Oops.

 

It’s not really a problem at all actually as my post was meant to clarify the usage of forward facing “combat patches” and the time frame of their use in the 1st Cav. I’m not concerned at all with whether or not the patches were authorized because DCU’s are no longer worn and I am a civilian now.

 

 

 

The division ordered these reversed patches during their first OIF rotation in 2004, but then discovered after the fact that they were unauthorized. Many were worn anyway, at least in theater, but I don't think you'll see them after 2004. A lot of the 1st Cav DCU's I've seen have the reversed patch, probably because they were available and the command within the division tolerated them.

 

The reason you wont see a lot of them after 2004 is because the Army was in the process of switching over to the ACUs and 1st Cav only made one deployment to Iraq as a full division while wearing the DCUs. I seriously doubt any soldiers at any level within the Cav removed their forward facing patch because they found out it was unauthorized. It was a matter of pride to wear them as the horse was charging forward into battle, the same way the flag is charging forward towards the enemy.

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The reason you wont see a lot of them after 2004 is because the Army was in the process of switching over to the ACUs and 1st Cav only made one deployment to Iraq as a full division while wearing the DCUs. I seriously doubt any soldiers at any level within the Cav removed their forward facing patch because they found out it was unauthorized. It was a matter of pride to wear them as the horse was charging forward into battle, the same way the flag is charging forward towards the enemy.

Maybe so, but I don't believe that soldiers suddenly removed the reversed SSI because they discovered that they were not authorized at DA level. I'm pretty sure soldiers wore them as long as possible until they switched to the ACU or were told to change them by some authority. I fully expected to see reversed ACU SSI, too.

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Checked all over the internet and can find no reference to the 101st Airborne using reverse patch in Iraq or anywhere else. I guess the 1st Cavalry and 2nd Infantry were the only ones who wore reversed patches in Iraq unless someone else knows different.

 

That's wrong, and I can at least add one unit in your list :thumbsup: Here's now the 11st Armored Cavalry Regiment. They well worn reversed patches on their DCU :

 

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So never say never...And as Mercernary25 said, I have some reversed DCU SSI in my collection, and majorities are US made, not theater made. See :

 

http://oefoif.forumotion.net/t1434-variati...ches-and-badges

"As you know, you go to war with the Army you have. They're not the Army you might want or wish to have at a later time. You can have all the armor in the world on a tank and it can (still) be blown up..." - Donald Rumsfeld (Camp Buehring, KU - Dec. 8, 2004)

See my current collection of desert SSI HERE
See my current collection of Badges (ranks, qualification badges, Branch of Service - from WW2 to present) HERE
See my files in PDF on scribd.com HERE
See my collection of jackets HERE

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Cool, P-E! Now I have to go look at my 11th ACR DCU's to see if any are reversed. :lol:

Always looking for US and foreign militaria from the Central American wars circa 1970-1990

donation2017.gif

donation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

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