23rd Regiment LT, 1923

[USMCRECON]

While I'm posting to the uniform thread I guess I'll add another one. This is a 1923-dated Army officer's uniform (blouse and breeches). I took a couple other pics but they did not come out well and I'll have to retake them later. The US and 23rd Infantry lapel insignia are quite large and look like they might have come off an immediate post war uniform with stand-up collar and bright buttons and insignis (is that an M-1919 blouse??). It has a 23rd Regiment patch on the shoulder, bullion LT rank (hard to tell through the tarnish but I think it is a 1LT), Victory ribbon, and two overseas chevrons. I can't tell what color they were since they have tarnished to literally a black color.

 

[GIl Sanow]

While I'm posting to the uniform thread I guess I'll add another one. This is a 1923-dated Army officer's uniform (blouse and breeches). I took a couple other pics but they did not come out well and I'll have to retake them later. The US and 23rd Infantry lapel insignia are quite large and look like they might have come off an immediate post war uniform with stand-up collar and bright buttons and insignis (is that an M-1919 blouse??). It has a 23rd Regiment patch on the shoulder, bullion LT rank (hard to tell through the tarnish but I think it is a 1LT), Victory ribbon, and two overseas chevrons. I can't tell what color they were since they have tarnished to literally a black color.

 

 

Interesting -- if it is dated 1923, it should have been made with a standing collar. How about a pic of the underside of the collar? If it is a conversion, it looks like the upper pockets were converted to pleated -- or is that a false pleat added? The lower pockets look to be set inside too which is correct. It might also be interesting to see if the collar is pieced in the back.

 

I have an EM's of a similar vintage which is rebuilt from a high collar type.

 

I am certain folks will want to see the patch too.

 

G

[USMCRECON]

Interesting -- if it is dated 1923, it should have been made with a standing collar. How about a pic of the underside of the collar? If it is a conversion, it looks like the upper pockets were converted to pleated -- or is that a false pleat added? The lower pockets look to be set inside too which is correct. It might also be interesting to see if the collar is pieced in the back.

 

I have an EM's of a similar vintage which is rebuilt from a high collar type.

 

I am certain folks will want to see the patch too.

 

G

 

Hello Gil. You are quite right about the uniform being converted. While taking the extra photos (below) I took another look at the label and I was also incorrect on the date - I was thinking of another blouse in my between-the-wars collection. The date stamped on the lable is June 1917. I got this from a shop about 8-10 years ago, just as you see it.

 

It's interesting and is in overall quite nice shape but it's certainly not one of my favorites; I only bought it because I got a reasonable deal on it as I was buying a bunch of other stuff as well. I don't like the look of the oversized lapel insignia or the painted/dyed Indianhead on the patch.

 

You can see the modified collar in the upper picture. The lower one shows the false pleat sewn onto the earlier flat upper pocket. The pic of the patch wouldn't fit so will post it in a follow-on.

 

[USMCRECON]

Here's the 23rd Regiment patch. It's sewn on a little farther back on the sleeve which made it very difficult to lay it flat to photograph it. I had a very hard time laying it on the ironing board to photograph it and it got bunched up a little out of shape. Anyway, you can get the idea.

 

[GIl Sanow]

Here's the 23rd Regiment patch. It's sewn on a little farther back on the sleeve which made it very difficult to lay it flat to photograph it. I had a very hard time laying it on the ironing board to photograph it and it got bunched up a little out of shape. Anyway, you can get the idea.

 

 

Very good -- it is as I suspected. I would try to find a set of old 23rd DI's -- SB or PB to add. I wonder when the 2nd Div dropped the unit specific Indian head background.

 

G

[USMCRECON]

Very good -- it is as I suspected. I would try to find a set of old 23rd DI's -- SB or PB to add. I wonder when the 2nd Div dropped the unit specific Indian head background.

 

G

 

The 23rd DIs are an interesting thought, Gil. However, while I mentioned that this is not really one of the favorites of my between the wars uniforms, I don't see any indication of pinholes or screwpost holes on the epaulettes where DIs were. Further, I don't really want to add something that was not there when I got it.

 

Regarding your question on the patch.....I really have no idea about the history of the 2nd Div Indianhead between the wars. Perhaps someone more informed on 2nd Div patches might add their thoughts/comments.

[cbuehler]

Actually, this is a rather nice coat. I have not seen an officers converted one before, only enlisted. The only thing is that the collar insignia is not correct for the coat of course, and I am quite sure it was added by someone later. The small insignia specified in 1926 would have been worn.

It would be a small matter to replace the insignia with the appropriate type.

 

CB

[GIl Sanow]

I've seen the larger pre-'26 brass on '26 uniforms, but not real often. Given the size of the brass and the size of the lapels, it is pretty obvious why they reduced the size of the insignia.

 

As I think about it, I wonder then the DI for the 23rd was first authorized. If it was much after the 2nd Div shield was adopted for all units, this coat may have been worn in a rather narrow time period. I Like it!

 

G

[USMCRECON]

I've seen the larger pre-'26 brass on '26 uniforms, but not real often. Given the size of the brass and the size of the lapels, it is pretty obvious why they reduced the size of the insignia.

 

As I think about it, I wonder then the DI for the 23rd was first authorized. If it was much after the 2nd Div shield was adopted for all units, this coat may have been worn in a rather narrow time period. I Like it!

 

G

 

Thanks Gil. The 23rd Infantry insignia are rather concave and look like they may be legacy pieces that had beeen earlier worn before the collar was converted. This is the only between the wars officer's blouse that I have that has the large lapel brass.

 

I don't know when DIs were authorized either. Sadly, it seems I usually have many, many more questions than I have answers.

[GIl Sanow]

If I recall correctly, the ASMIC catalogs, at least the older ones, had DUI authorization dates. An RA outfit like this should have had a date in the '20's for sure. Was thinking if the two insignia dates were known, we might be able to fit the coat into that niche.

 

G