T19E1, Exerimental tanker helmet liner

[HoovieDude]

Just had this beauty come in today. Was part of a trade I did with Mark-37thguy. Sure is a thing of beauty, thanks Mark :thumbsup:

 

Has a name on the crown suspension pad, but cant make out the name a 100%. Looks like Delbert, or Debbert A Nash

 

[HoovieDude]

 

The steel shell for the liner. Was a modified M-1...

 

 

And this T-19 sits on display now next to another experimental liner, my M51.

[sgtdorango]

WoW!!!!.......ive always liked both of those liners/helmets after first seeing them in Steel Pots!....nice!!!.....mike

[HoovieDude]

I'am still lacking that book. Need to fix that one of these days, especially as I have a couple subjects that appear in that book. This one came from his collection I am told, but I've also just been told this isn't a liner for the T19e1 after all.

 

Anyone with more info would be greatly appreciated :thumbsup:

[jason4473]

Wow I have never seen a liner like that! the side view it kind of resembles an imperial german helmet shape

[Sabrejet]

Wow! What a wierd but wonderful creation! Reminds me of the expedient flak helmets of WW2.

 

Sabrejet

[37thguy]

So what is it's name then? Any ideas? Is it for tankers or someone else?

 

Hmmmm :think:

[HoovieDude]

So what is it's name then? Any ideas? Is it for tankers or someone else?

 

Hmmmm :think:

 

Thanks to Paul R, and his knowledge, it is a liner/crash helmet for a T19E2 armored helmet, vs E1. He's a pic of the shell I need to ask if I can use here. It is even more interesting in appearance.

[HoovieDude]

Okay, even more info While used in the aformentioned experimental helmets, the official name for these were "Liner, Helmet, M1 Crash". Much thanks to Larry as well now.

I was close in my title then, just not enough for the cigar

 

Here is an article on the matter...

 

http://www.militarytrader.com/article/A-Helmet-Rarity/

[gitana]

I'd like to dust this topic off to ask a question. In the above discussion, it was stated that the "Liner, Helmet, M1 Crash" was designed as the liner for the T19E2 helmet. However, in Larry's wonderful article, he says:

 

The Armored Board recognized the need to field a new tank helmet to replace the Rawlings Pattern helmet as soon as possible and authorized the acceptance and immediate procurement of the “Liner, Helmet, M-1, Crash” even though the T-19E1 and T-19E2 shells had both been rejected.

 

While Ordnance was creating the experimental helmet shells, the Quartermaster was designing the Crash Liner (separately). It's my impression from his article that the liner was not created for any helmet shell; rather it was its own design for bump protection.

[LarryM3]

gitana - you are absolutely correct in your assumption. This was a direct result of the success of the M-1 helmet system, which of course consisted of two parts, shell and liner. Because this design had proven it's worth in combat and was very popular with the troops the Armored Board decided to stick with a winner and requested a two part helmet system for tank crews. The theory being that the liner would be worn while inside the tank and provide bump protection and when outside the tank or with the head exposed (driver or tank commander primarily) the shell would be added to provide ballistic protection. It was actually a very good theory in principle. As I stated in the article "A Helmet Rarity" the QM Department design was accepted, and indeed contracts put out for it's production, while the T19-E1 and T19-E2 shells both were rejected. The end of the war put an end to the project. The only steel shells produced were a few hundred (that's a guess) for testing and field trials while the 10,000 or so liners produced were issued as Limited Standard well into the 1950's. Hope this helps.

 

Larry

[Sabrejet]

There are some well known pics from as late as the Korean War showing US tankers wearing M3 Flak Helmets as additional ballistic protection. Not a million miles from the concept illustrated here....but available and already proven.

[gitana]

gitana - you are absolutely correct in your assumption. This was a direct result of the success of the M-1 helmet system, which of course consisted of two parts, shell and liner. Because this design had proven it's worth in combat and was very popular with the troops the Armored Board decided to stick with a winner and requested a two part helmet system for tank crews. The theory being that the liner would be worn while inside the tank and provide bump protection and when outside the tank or with the head exposed (driver or tank commander primarily) the shell would be added to provide ballistic protection. It was actually a very good theory in principle. As I stated in the article "A Helmet Rarity" the QM Department design was accepted, and indeed contracts put out for it's production, while the T19-E1 and T19-E2 shells both were rejected. The end of the war put an end to the project. The only steel shells produced were a few hundred (that's a guess) for testing and field trials while the 10,000 or so liners produced were issued as Limited Standard well into the 1950's. Hope this helps.

 

Larry

 

 

So was the Crash Liner to be paired with yet another helmet design, or was it to be used on its own after the T19 shells were rejected? Thanks for the confirmation.

[LarryM3]

So was the Crash Liner to be paired with yet another helmet design, or was it to be used on its own after the T19 shells were rejected? Thanks for the confirmation.

 

Based on photographs it was always worn alone. An M-1 shell would have fit over it but photographs wouldn't show the liner so no way to know if it was ever done that way or not.

 

Larry

[LarryM3]

So was the Crash Liner to be paired with yet another helmet design, or was it to be used on its own after the T19 shells were rejected? Thanks for the confirmation.

 

gitana - I mis-read your question which means I have to re-phrase my answer. The liner and helmet were designed together, both QM and Ord knew what the helmet system would look like as regards to the scooped out areas over the ears. These were necessary for the special radio-communications earphones which were designed for this helmet. Other design features such as the reduced visor/brim of the shell and the internal components of the liner were developed on their own. I hope this makes sense. Maybe the best way to answer is to go through the process: the Armored Forces requested a ballistic helmet for tank crews, the Armored Board received these requests and endorsed them and forwarded them to the Ordnance Dept. (which had responsibility for helmet shells) which initiated a design project which came up with the overall design of the helmet, this was approved by the Armored Forces so Ordnance then requested the QM Dept. to design/modify a liner for the shell based on the initial Ordnance design specification. I'm sure the different groups interacted with each other during the prototype design and production phases. Does this make sense and answer your question ?

 

Larry

[gitana]

Yes! Both the helmet and liner were designed to go with each other, but while the liner was accepted, the helmet was not and went no further. I didn't know if there was a later version of the helmet the Crash Liner might go with, but apparently not. Either way, I thought your article was really great and summed up nicely something I'd never known about.

 

Speaking of which, would you mind divulging your sources for the article? I found the of the Personnel Protective Armor article from the 1962 Wound Ballistics report (Army Medical) and it runs down the list of experimental helmets and liners, but there are things from your article missing from that report. That's a very interesting read, and I'd enjoy reading other primary sources about this, and helmet development in general.

[LarryM3]

Yes! Both the helmet and liner were designed to go with each other, but while the liner was accepted, the helmet was not and went no further. I didn't know if there was a later version of the helmet the Crash Liner might go with, but apparently not. Either way, I thought your article was really great and summed up nicely something I'd never known about.

 

Speaking of which, would you mind divulging your sources for the article? I found the of the Personnel Protective Armor article from the 1962 Wound Ballistics report (Army Medical) and it runs down the list of experimental helmets and liners, but there are things from your article missing from that report. That's a very interesting read, and I'd enjoy reading other primary sources about this, and helmet development in general.

 

gitana - glad you enjoyed the article. Here is the bibliography for that particular article:

 

'Wound Ballistics', Medical Dept., U.S.Army, GPO, 1962.

'SPMEA 727-121, Project No.24', Armored Force Medical Research Laboratory, Ft. Knox, 1945.

Digest: 'Liner, helmet, M-1, Crash', U.S.Army Center for Military History, 1953.

'The History of the Helmet Liner; CQMD Historical Studies, Report No. 5'; Historical Branch, Chicago QM Depot, 1944.

'Helmets and Body Armor', Office of the Chief of Ordnance, GPO, 1945.

'Military Helmet Design, Research Project NM 81 01 09.1', CMDR. Frederick J.Lewis; Naval Medical Field Research Laboratory, Camp Lejeune, 1958.

'A Tanker's Uniform For A Tanker's Duties'; Capt. Robert E. Drake, Armor School Report, Ft. Knox, 1951-1952.

'Test of Helmet, T19E2, Tank Helmet', The Armored Board, Ft. Knox, 1945.

'A Human Engineering Evaluation of the Combat Vehicle Crewman's Helmet T56-6'; David M. McKenzie, Aberdeen Proving ground, 1969.

 

Larry

[Paul Reijnders]

OK, maybe with this picture I can help to resolve a lot of questions

 

Here you see the steelpot for the Crash Helmet liner.

It's the Experimental T19E2 helmet

 

Regards, Paul Reijnders

[The Meatcan]

wow - great photo of that shell. Thanks for posting, Paul!

Terry

[gitana]

That is really great, and now I REALLY want one! Looks just like the CVC helmets that came later. Thank you for the photo. Do you have one of the T19E1?

[Paul Reijnders]

A project to provide additional protection to tank and armored vehicle crew was the model T-19E1 and the T-20E1. The idea behind those helmets was to provide a helmet which could be used with an improved padded suspension and allow the wearer to use headphones. The front brim area was removed to aid in using weapons-sighting devices. While several were manufactured and tested, the helmet did not go into production. Next helmet is the T-20E1 , the liner system was cut away in a manner similar to the US Navy Talker helmet.

 

Who and When the red band as also MP has / is painted I realy don't know. Funny thing is that the person who did this, didn't know the front of the helmet !!

 

Regards , Paul Reijnders

[Paul Reijnders]

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[Paul Reijnders]

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[LarryM3]

gitana - glad you enjoyed the article. Here is the bibliography for that particular article:

 

'Wound Ballistics', Medical Dept., U.S.Army, GPO, 1962.

'SPMEA 727-121, Project No.24', Armored Force Medical Research Laboratory, Ft. Knox, 1945.

Digest: 'Liner, helmet, M-1, Crash', U.S.Army Center for Military History, 1953.

'The History of the Helmet Liner; CQMD Historical Studies, Report No. 5'; Historical Branch, Chicago QM Depot, 1944.

'Helmets and Body Armor', Office of the Chief of Ordnance, GPO, 1945.

'Military Helmet Design, Research Project NM 81 01 09.1', CMDR. Frederick J.Lewis; Naval Medical Field Research Laboratory, Camp Lejeune, 1958.

'A Tanker's Uniform For A Tanker's Duties'; Capt. Robert E. Drake, Armor School Report, Ft. Knox, 1951-1952.

'Test of Helmet, T19E2, Tank Helmet', The Armored Board, Ft. Knox, 1945.

'A Human Engineering Evaluation of the Combat Vehicle Crewman's Helmet T56-6'; David M. McKenzie, Aberdeen Proving ground, 1969.

 

Larry

 

Did you get this information ?

[gitana]

I sure did Larry, and many thanks for your help. Recently I've been creating a bibliography from various sources and am trying to find some of the original material referenced. For the most part, many of these obscure references are available (I assume) only at the National Archives. I cannot find many online.