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Vietnam era Subdued 101st patch


gwb123
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I've posted this picture before. It shows a standard issue subdued 101st SSI being worn as a combat patch on an ERDL uniform by a member of Co. H 75th Inf., the 1st Cav LRRP unit, around 1971.

 

Although this is not any evidence of the 101st wearing subdued SSI as their present assignment patch, it does show that some standard U.S. made subdued 101st patches did make it to Vietnam and were in fact worn during the war.

 

Also, not that at least one of the LRRP's is wearing a full color 1st Cav patch.

post-1761-1300116127.jpg

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This might be interesting to you;

 

Re Vietnam and patches. I can only tell you what I saw, of course. Saying "always" or "never" in something like this is tricky. I was in Nam June 65 to June 66, and never wore a color patch there. Before we left the states from Fort Benning we turned in our fatigue uniforms and had them dyed a mud color. We took the patches off and were issued stencils of the cav patch which we put on the uniforms with aerosol spray paint. It was not a very spit and polish episode since we had so much contact and other trials, and nobody worried much about insignia. For example, for the entire year I washed, shaved, and washed my clothes in my helmet. About November, 1965, the local PX got some subdued cav patches made in Japan. I don't have one any more (which proves I'm stupid, since that was the first subdued patch I'm sure.) As a matter of interest we also dyed our tee shirts and anything light colored with commercial dye; two blacks and one green.

 

Well, that was what I saw, but the cav was there for almost seven more years, and the subdued patches did not come in formally until (I think) 1970. As I was leaving we were being replaced by a bunch of eager beaver/salutin' devils who were out to make their mark by spiffing up the unit, and we had less combat then so it was perhaps appropriate. I would not be surprised to hear that these young Napoleons brought back the color patch for at least one uniform, but I don't know.

 

I asked my friend who was in Viet Nam what he saw regarding patches.

 

Erwin

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Not a matter of being right or wrong nor my intent.

 

The fact is they were worn as stated with photographic evidence from two sources now to back up the issue and occasional wear of subdued SSI contrary to the popular held belief that the 101st only wore full color in Vietnam. That was the point because even I held that belief for the longest time until I got a worn subdued patch from a Vietnam vets worn issue. I probably passed on a 3rd pattern coat that may have been genuine simply because I held a belief that turned out to not be true as whole. Definitely the exception to the rule but I'll think twice.

 

.....

 

Well said. There is no disputing that the wear of subdued patches in the 101st in Vietnam was very much the exception and contrary to common practice.

 

But, as with just about anything concerning the Vietnam War, there just seem to be exceptions to everything.

 

With all the concern about fakes from the Vietnam period (often quite justified), I've seen experienced collectors talk themselves out of a perfectly good patch or uniform simply because it did not fit the norm.

 

Thanks to everyone who contributed here on both sides of the discussion... this is what makes this Forum fun and productive!

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Not a matter of being right or wrong nor my intent.

 

The fact is they were worn as stated with photographic evidence from two sources now to back up the issue and occasional wear of subdued SSI contrary to the popular held belief that the 101st only wore full color in Vietnam. That was the point because even I held that belief for the longest time until I got a worn subdued patch from a Vietnam vets worn issue. I probably passed on a 3rd pattern coat that may have been genuine simply because I held a belief that turned out to not be true as whole. Definitely the exception to the rule but I'll think twice.

 

The L 75th website is but one source for images. There are more.

 

I've always liked the patch that started this thread. Knowing where it was made really helps because these have always been attributed as Vietnam made but they aren't. What would really be king is to find an image with it being worn in Vietnam. For some reason I think I've seen one but dont know if it's in my archive or some old magazine somewhere.

 

Attached is another from Martinez's photos. Look at the Ranger on the far right as you view the image.

 

Anyway great thread that dispels some more fables out there. :thumbsup:

 

 

When you take personal photos off the internet it is always a nice gesture to say where they came from, you see alot of that on this forum, and one day a website could get shut down for copy right infringement. Any how, since I have had alot of interaction with VN 101st vets, as a majority, the 101st wore full color SSI, and the rare exception that a unit wore subdued patches. Most lrrps and ranger groups wore sterile uniforms into the field this is from members of (L/75 rangers and Hawk Recon and 3/506th Lrrps). You see alot of combos with both subdued and full color insignia on their walking out uniforms worn on base camp. There is no doubt that the occasional subdued was worn in the field but it was again by small groups, so as a whole the 101st Airborne Division wore full color up until the end of the VN war. Just this past August I met a medic from 506th who served in 1971-72 time frame, who said right before he left he was issued subdued US made 101st patches, which he said he never wore. The debate will go on, but average 101st grunt from Nam had full color patches. Just my 2 cents..Paul

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Gil,

 

Here are some pictures of subdue patches from a long time collection. I have not examined them personally and is only a small part of a huge patch collection.

post-468-1300283981.jpg

post-468-1300284030.jpg

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nguoi tien su

ed_swe10.jpg

 

On a 498th Medical Co (Dust Off) member, 1970. It looks like the tab is local made (due to the color?)

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Niner Alpha

Right sleeve is the served before sleeve. Left sleeve is the serving now sleeve. Some outfits didn't appreciate the 101st permission to have a full color patch.

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X_redcatcher
Right sleeve is the served before sleeve. Left sleeve is the serving now sleeve. Some outfits didn't appreciate the 101st permission to have a full color patch.

 

QUITE RIGHT!! Some units could have a full color patch in Nam,,101st and the 1st Div come to mind, however when you left those units, the Army Regulations jumped in. Then you had to have a regulation one on your combat side (OD). The color ones were under unit SOP's and not ment for after your transfered out of the unit.

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nguoi tien su

True.

 

c_troo10.jpg

 

On this photo showing C Troop, 2nd Squadron, 17th Cavalry Regiment, the guy standing on the right is wearing the subdued patch. This time, not as a combat patch.

 

In both cases, it is rather unusual.

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NobleLoyalGSD

Somewhat good pic of "locally" made sub 101 SSI on the left shoulder of the soldier on the right.

~J

(reason for edit: still don't know my right from left! :blink: )

post-1759-1300574696.jpg

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QUITE RIGHT!! Some units could have a full color patch in Nam,,101st and the 1st Div come to mind, however when you left those units, the Army Regulations jumped in. Then you had to have a regulation one on your combat side (OD). The color ones were under unit SOP's and not meant for after your transfered out of the unit.

 

Excellent comment and I meant to post something similar. I suspect that most of the patches shared by my friend 34BDQ were probably made for just that reason, for right shoulder wear. So this is a different situation from discussing what soldiers wore while assigned to the 101st.

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Right sleeve is the served before sleeve. Left sleeve is the serving now sleeve. Some outfits didn't appreciate the 101st permission to have a full color patch.

For a while in the 70's the 101st was still wearing the full color SSI on the left sleeve even back at Ft. Campbell after Vietnam. I remember seeing either an OG-107 shirt or field jacket from that time period with a full color 101st SSI on the left sleeve as the current unit and a subdued 101st SSI on the right sleeve as the combat patch. I also seem to recall some full color SSI being worn on ERDL jackets when they were re-issued to some units in the 70's.

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For a while in the 70's the 101st was still wearing the full color SSI on the left sleeve even back at Ft. Campbell after Vietnam. I remember seeing either an OG-107 shirt or field jacket from that time period with a full color 101st SSI on the left sleeve as the current unit and a subdued 101st SSI on the right sleeve as the combat patch. I also seem to recall some full color SSI being worn on ERDL jackets when they were re-issued to some units in the 70's.

 

From my former collection... I am sure this was a post Vietnam worn jungle jacket. I am guessing this was worn in the early or mid 1970's.

101st_1970__s.jpg

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  • 3 months later...
True, but it is "subdued" whether it was originally made that way or not.

 

As noted above, it may have been "sop to wear them full color", but there were exceptions. This is one of them.

 

With all the camo these guys have on, the last thing they would want is a white eagle patch on their shoulder.

 

Thanks for the photo snake36bravo!

 

I would also add this photo was probaly taken very late in the war maybe as late as early 1972.

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I'd be curious to know if anyone has figured this patch out...

 

This is a factory made subdued 101st patch with an attached tab. The weaving is rather dense, but is also rather flat. It features a cut edge, with an OD base cloth that fills the gap between the shield and the tab.

 

I'm quite confident this is from the Vietnam period. There is a similar one in Jim McDuff's Selected US Army Insignia of the Vietnam War. Jim's notes indicates he could not identify the source. The reverse thread seems to be black.

 

While a number of Vietnam era patches were made in the subdued on twill style, this one does not quite match the way the others were made because the shield and eagle are fully embroidered.

 

So I have wondered, is this US made? German? Japanese? Was this being issued during the same period as the subdued on twill patches, and meant to be part of that same issue?

 

Before anyone looks, this one is not included on Mark Bando's website. However in his text he does mention "A Japanese company which made professional-quality subdued patches of all the U.S. combat units in Vietnam did produce a 101st version, but it was not generally worn by the troops." I am wondering if this is what he was referring to.

 

In regards to the photos put up, here the men are wearing the subdued 101 patch as a combat patch, this would be in the late war period 70-72,prior to this the full color 101 patch was allways worn as a combat patch in any unit you chose to pick, likewise the 1st,5th,and 82nd in full colour. The subdued patch was seen more and more, not only for the 101 but also the 1st inf div,5th div,and the 82nd.Upon returing to the states in this period the wearing of the full color 1st div, 5th div, 101st abn div, and 82nd abn div, was not allowed, this being that all insignia now being mandated to be subdued throughout the army on all fatique items. Back in vietnam the full colour patch continued to be worn in the 101 and would be, till the last elements of this division left in july 1972, The photos showing the recon/rangers would in the late war period, where the subdued patch would be worn as a matter of course if one was to be worn at all. Early subdued patches that would be seen in earlier periods like 67-69 would be aquired and worn on the initiative of the individual soldier. When the 101 returned to ft campbell and all the elements where gathered together again, the full colour patch contiued to be worn, if only for a brief time, they soon would be wearing the subdued patch as a organizational patch , this i believe went on till the mid 70s, it was then that the full colour patch was reinstated for wear, however the subdued patch had to be worn as a combat patch, irreguardless if that man was currently serving in the 101 at fort campbell, so there was no full colour double patch fatiques to be seen, in the late 70s the 101 was issued as part of their uniforms the old ERDL and the newer so called rapid deployment force ERDL uniforms,these uniforms where worn when the units of the division undertook training in the more tropical inviroments like Puerto Rico,(the 82nd had these types too, no coloured patches where worn at all in the 82nd not even on standard fatiques, and they wore them more in other areas like on reforger) even on these types the full colour patches contiuned to be worn.

 

This all changed with the introduction of the new BDU, but thats another story.

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patchtrader864

In the book RIPCORD there are 15 photos of 101's patches and they are all color the photo's are black and white but the white part of the patch shows very clear and that was July 1970 .patchtrader864

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  • 4 years later...

Even after leaving Vietnam, members of the 101st Airborne unofficially officially continued to wear the full color 101st SSI for their current assignment I believe as late as the early 1980's. In most cases, veterans of the division from Vietnam would nevertheless wear a subdued 101st SSI as their combat patch. In the first picture, you see Major General Sidney Berry, who commanded the division from 1973 to 1974, is seen wearing the full color 101st SSI stateside with the odd combination of a subdued Ranger tab.

 

The second photo shows members of the 326th Engineering Battalion wearing full color current assignment 101st SSI while one soldier is wearing a full color 101st combat patch while the one on the far left appears to be wearing a subdued 101st combat patch. I believe the wearing of the blue beret dates this to some time between 1974 and 1978.

post-1761-0-95088400-1466700671.jpg

post-1761-0-75481200-1466700672.jpg

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Even after leaving Vietnam, members of the 101st Airborne unofficially officially continued to wear the full color 101st SSI for their current assignment I believe as late as the early 1980's. In most cases, veterans of the division from Vietnam would nevertheless wear a subdued 101st SSI as their combat patch. In the first picture, you see Major General Sidney Berry, who commanded the division from 1973 to 1974, is seen wearing the full color 101st SSI stateside with the odd combination of a subdued Ranger tab.

 

The second photo shows members of the 326th Engineering Battalion wearing full color current assignment 101st SSI while one soldier is wearing a full color 101st combat patch while the one on the far left appears to be wearing a subdued 101st combat patch. I believe the wearing of the blue beret dates this to some time between 1974 and 1978.

Interesting one on the color combat 101 patch at that date. While it,s been established that the full color 101, was the official patch up till late 1981 into 1982, indeed full color 101 patches were worn on their ERDL/RDF coats in the 70s early 80s. got them in the 1982 ARMY GREEN BOOK. Same with the 1st and 5th Divisions in them days, never knew why the old 82nd didn't do the color patch, right.

 

Oh that reminds me, the 101 did wear subdued organizational patches, however brief after Nam, I got a photo, I'll have to scan that one too along with the Green Book ones, maybe tomorrow..

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Here's the promised scans from the ARMY GREEN book of 1982.

 

post-34986-0-67916400-1466870432.jpg

 

Here we see a 1980 or 81 (Pre BDU) photo of GIs of the 101 in maneuvers in Puerto Rico. They wear ERDLS or RDF Cammies, even here the full color Screaming Eagles patch was worn. By contrast, another photo in this same issue, which I didn't scan, shows GIs of the 82nd in Pamanma on maneuvers in ERDLS/RDFs with their patch subdued, they sitting in the door and on the deck of a huey. Still curious as to why the 82nd in the 70s very early 80s didn't go with the full color version of their premier divisional patch.

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post-34986-0-06795400-1466870979.jpg

 

And this one from from the same issue, a classic depiction of the contrast of wear of patches for organizational and combat in then then current 101, troops are of one of the Battalions of the 327th Inf being visited by the then Sergeant Major of the Army William Connelly at Campbell in 80 0r 81.

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And finally this gem of a foto, I talked about it before a while back, but now am able to scan it. jump qualified 101 troops with U.S. made fully embroidered merrowed edge subdued 101 patches as a organizational one.

 

post-34986-0-05942700-1466872209.jpg

 

These troops are at Campbell in sometime in 1972, probably in the spring, and am sure they're of the 3rd Brigade. When the division moved their colors back to Campbell starting in December 1971 when the first elmts of the division left, the division would begin to form up again, the 3rd Bde was the first, it leaves in December 1971, the very last I believe was the 2nd Bn 501st Inf in July 1972, the 2/501st operates under U.S. Army Support Command Cam Rahn Bay, but I believe they still wore the 101 patch, and in full color.

 

Back at Campbell in the meantime, It was decided to put the 3rd Bde back on jump status. So when the entire or at least the overwhelming majority of 101st was back at Fort Campbell it continued in it's airmobile role, with the 3rd Brigade that went back on jump status, however was using assets from the inactivated 173rd Airborne Division, ie the 1st and 2nd battalions of the 503rd Inf, and several support units went back on jump status as well, probably a Arty Bn as well as some of the units to give the 3rd Bde an All Arms capability, IE Engineers, a Troop from the 2nd Sqd 17th Cav etc etc. The 3rd Bde as well as the other units went off jump status in April 1974, and the two Bns of the 503rd remained with the 101 as Air Assault like the rest of the division.

 

Now as to the subdued patch as a organizational one at this time, my guess is that wasn't worn for long, and this was just a brief confusion as to the appropriate one in an army now ordered to wear only subdued patches on fatigue items, had been since 69 with the wear out date for the colored ones in July 1970. Tradition won out no doubt and the full color on was in again.

 

Still curious as to why the 82nd did go with their color type at this time

 

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  • 5 months later...

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