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Subdued 60's army chevrons


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I've had a near complete set of subdued army rank chevrons for about 25 years. I have no idea where they came from but I got them when I was a kid.

 

Are these repros or could they be 60's era real deals?

 

Thanks for any help.

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Primary interests:

The United States Army in WWII

The United States Army in Vietnam
 

My YouTube patch channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxXvNiUvwbB-e4i0gl-RrFA

 

WANTED:

WWII:

551st PIB pocket and shoulder patches

504th PIR real deal pocket patch 

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One more pic:

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Member:

ASMIC

OVMS

Primary interests:

The United States Army in WWII

The United States Army in Vietnam
 

My YouTube patch channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxXvNiUvwbB-e4i0gl-RrFA

 

WANTED:

WWII:

551st PIB pocket and shoulder patches

504th PIR real deal pocket patch 

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In the past few years (due to sudden interest and increased value), subdued chervons have been repro'd. I used to pick them up whenever I came across them, but will no longer buy mint unused examples from a militaria dealer, as I'm not confident I can tell the difference between fakes and originals.

If you've had these 25 years, I'd say these are good, as I don't believe they were reproducing them back then. Chevrons were "junk" that nobody wanted. Now, they're all the collecting rage.

Kurt

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I am in agreement with Kurt. The chevrons you are showing look good to me. The newer subdued chevrons have a very distinct look to them. The black bars on the new ones is very wide and just about runs into the black borders. The newer ones also have a twill/rayon look to them. I would say yours are from the 70's.

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Sell and / or trade items: http://s1080.photobucket.com/albums/j335/36tex/Military Collectables For Sale or Trade/

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In the past few years (due to sudden interest and increased value), subdued chervons have been repro'd.

Kurt, Mark ...

 

Do y'all think the E8 and E9 subdued chevrons that have been showing up on eBay lately are repros?

 

Thanks,

John

 

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~ In Memory Of ~
Donald Earl Boston, IC3 - KILO PLT, SEAL TEAM ONE, TF 116, USNAVFORV - KIA 07 April 1967, Vietnam
David Rolland Jackson, CWO - 71ST AHC, 14TH AVN BN
, 16TH AVN GROUP, AMERICAL - KIA 25 September 1969, Vietnam

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The previous post of the subdued Sp9 insignia caught my eye.

 

According to Emerson (and my own experience) virtually no one was ever promoted to the specialist supergrades. To me it seems odd that ebay would suddenly have multiple listings for a rank to which no one was ever promoted. At first I thought it might be a stash of unissued insigna, but according to Emerson the SP8 and SP9 ranks were abolished in '65. Subdued chevrons didn't appear until a coupe years later.

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To me it seems odd that ebay would suddenly have multiple listings for a rank to which no one was ever promoted.

That was my reaction. But Emerson says that "by 1966" the Army was issuing black on OD stripes (p. 202), so I'm thinkin' they may well have been manufactured at the time ... 1965 and "by 1966" come real close to being the same thing.

~ In Memory Of ~
Donald Earl Boston, IC3 - KILO PLT, SEAL TEAM ONE, TF 116, USNAVFORV - KIA 07 April 1967, Vietnam
David Rolland Jackson, CWO - 71ST AHC, 14TH AVN BN
, 16TH AVN GROUP, AMERICAL - KIA 25 September 1969, Vietnam

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That was my reaction. But Emerson says that "by 1966" the Army was issuing black on OD stripes (p. 202), so I'm thinkin' they may well have been manufactured at the time ... 1965 and "by 1966" come real close to being the same thing.

 

I was in the army in '66 and never saw any subdued insignia...which doesn't mean they weren't beginning to issue it elsewhere. At the time, I was near an AF BX, which served army troops and which had far more yellow SP8 and SP9 stripes than any othe army rank; apparently no one had bothered to tell the AF the army didnt have any of those folks. So possibly some bureaucrat who hadn't been informed of the rank's demise ordered a gazillion subdued SP8 and SP9 stripes around '66, and someone just recently put them on the market. I'm assuming they are in unissued condition.

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I'm assuming they are in unissued condition.

They all appear to be, and some of them have gone for obscenely high prices.

~ In Memory Of ~
Donald Earl Boston, IC3 - KILO PLT, SEAL TEAM ONE, TF 116, USNAVFORV - KIA 07 April 1967, Vietnam
David Rolland Jackson, CWO - 71ST AHC, 14TH AVN BN
, 16TH AVN GROUP, AMERICAL - KIA 25 September 1969, Vietnam

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I was in the army in '66 and never saw any subdued insignia...which doesn't mean they weren't beginning to issue it elsewhere. At the time, I was near an AF BX, which served army troops and which had far more yellow SP8 and SP9 stripes than any othe army rank; apparently no one had bothered to tell the AF the army didnt have any of those folks. So possibly some bureaucrat who hadn't been informed of the rank's demise ordered a gazillion subdued SP8 and SP9 stripes around '66, and someone just recently put them on the market. I'm assuming they are in unissued condition.

 

I was stationed at Ft Bragg in 1966 and can't recall ever seeing subdued chevron anywhere on post. Checking my unit's 1966 yearbook, not a single photo of subdued rank can be found, and it includes many photos during events that occured in December of '66.

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I am in agreement with Kurt. The chevrons you are showing look good to me. The newer subdued chevrons have a very distinct look to them. The black bars on the new ones is very wide and just about runs into the black borders. The newer ones also have a twill/rayon look to them. I would say yours are from the 70's.

 

Two questions:

 

1. Why would they have been producing them in the 70's when they were replaced by pin-ons in 68/69?

 

2. When were black borders authorized? I only remember seeing (in 67/68) them on some (not all) SPC chevrons but never on hard stripes?

 

Thanks

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Bottom line – I think those subdued SP9 chevrons are modern creations.

I’ve always been interested in chevrons and that’s what I started collecting as a kid back in the 60’s. I still search them out, but I can’t say they ever became my specialty and I’m certainly no authority on them. However, I think searching them out and collecting them for years counts for something. For many years chevrons were cheap - I would buy every example I didn’t have. There aren’t many post WW1 chevrons I haven’t encountered. The color SP8 and SP9 chevrons have been around for years and I would buy them whenever they were inexpensive. (Until the mid 90’s or so, they were cheap - Nobody cared about “modern” post WW1 chevrons). For the past 45 years, despite going to countless flea markets, militaria shows, and Army Navy Stores, I NEVER encountered subdued SP8 and SP9 chevrons. I have found every other subdued Army rank over the years, but not those. Had I seen them, I certainly would have bought them. Now I’m seeing SP8 and SP9 chevrons all over Ebay. If I thought they were genuine, I’d buy them. But, I believe them all to be modern fantasy fakes.

Kurt

Ps – wherever you see the term “subdued SP8/9 chevron”, feel free to insert the term, “painted WW2 M1 helmet.” Same thing applies.

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I always liked the subdued full size chevrons and started collecting them when most people didn't want them. I have a lot of them and there are all sorts of variation in border colors, thickness of stripe, etc. I haven't taken very many photos of what I have but I'm posting the few I have taken.

 

FIRST SGT

 

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SPECIALIST

 

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PLEASE NOTE: THIS COMMUNITY MEMBER, SADLY, HAS PASSED AWAY

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Thanks for the replies.

 

Check out these with the funky bluish-green color. It looks like Craig has the same Spec 7's in this color.

 

I guess these were just a different manufacturer, as Craig points out?

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donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

Member:

ASMIC

OVMS

Primary interests:

The United States Army in WWII

The United States Army in Vietnam
 

My YouTube patch channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxXvNiUvwbB-e4i0gl-RrFA

 

WANTED:

WWII:

551st PIB pocket and shoulder patches

504th PIR real deal pocket patch 

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Share on other sites

I don't know if it can help... :

 

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"As you know, you go to war with the Army you have. They're not the Army you might want or wish to have at a later time. You can have all the armor in the world on a tank and it can (still) be blown up..." - Donald Rumsfeld (Camp Buehring, KU - Dec. 8, 2004)

See my current collection of desert SSI HERE
See my current collection of Badges (ranks, qualification badges, Branch of Service - from WW2 to present) HERE
See my files in PDF on scribd.com HERE
See my collection of jackets HERE

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This was published in a Danish Army publication over Nato ranks ( 1972) showing the SP 9 and SP 8 still in use ??

Henrik

If its from 72 it also missed the New PFC ranking from 1968 one stripe and rocker also

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Sold tonight on eBay for $175.55 ...

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~ In Memory Of ~
Donald Earl Boston, IC3 - KILO PLT, SEAL TEAM ONE, TF 116, USNAVFORV - KIA 07 April 1967, Vietnam
David Rolland Jackson, CWO - 71ST AHC, 14TH AVN BN
, 16TH AVN GROUP, AMERICAL - KIA 25 September 1969, Vietnam

donation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gif

donation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

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Sold tonight on eBay for $175.55 ...

I have no confidence that this chevron is a vintage original. Unfortunately, there’s no way to tell, as the materials and methods used to make chevrons in the 60’s are readily available today. The fact that I can never recall seeing one of these until relatively recently makes me very suspicious.

I used to like collecting chevrons because fakes weren’t an issue. Well, that has certainly changed.

Kurt

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