USMC M1910 Gear I just picked up

[m1a2u2]

I also got these items at the show of shows. I picked up this M1910 pack for $180. There were a few others for around the same price. Stupidly I did not inspect it and after I left I realized one of the straps was torn off. All items do have USMC stamps on them though.

 

 

USMC Bayonet Sheeth. There is some dried glue substance on the bottom part. Any Idea what this might be?

 

Pre WWI First Aid Pouch

 

What is the concensus on this shovel cover. Pre WWII?

The guy I bought it from attached the price with duct tape. What is the safest way to get this off?

 

[Lucky 7th Armored]

You picked up some really nice USMC gear!!

 

Haydn

[AustinO]

Ahh saw you and your attractive significant other buy that first aid pouch the other day, was at the table next to me. The previous owner of that pouch and I were having a good discussion on them on Friday, seems the one you picked up was the earlier variation so I would think it dates 1910-1912 or so.

Very nice pickups!

['Flage Guy]

Great stuff!! That Shovel Cover is definitely slick!

[Ronnie]

The shovel cover looks like a Phil Hughes made item. He made several of these about 5 or 6 years ago using old material that had the Philadelphia stamp in them. He didn't t stamp names on them but I know of one dealer who did. Phil uses all original webbing, canvas, thread, wire hangers and lift the dots when he makes an item that had lift the dots on it. He got all the hardware and material at Atlanta Army Navy. His work is phenominal. He is the best at what he does. He has made rigger made ammo pouches that passed as originals... But were sold as repros.

[Rob P.]

Some really nice gear!

 

Semper Fi, Rob

[m1a2u2]

The shovel cover looks like a Phil Hughes made item. He made several of these about 5 or 6 years ago using old material that had the Philadelphia stamp in them. He didn't t stamp names on them but I know of one dealer who did. Phil uses all original webbing, canvas, thread, wire hangers and lift the dots when he makes an item that had lift the dots on it. He got all the hardware and material at Atlanta Army Navy. His work is phenominal. He is the best at what he does. He has made rigger made ammo pouches that passed as originals... But were sold as repros.

 

 

So you're saying I bought a repro? There looks like there is too much fraying and metal shovel residue on the inside for it to be a repro. What about it makes you think its a repro?

[Ronnie]

So you're saying I bought a repro? There looks like there is too much fraying and metal shovel residue on the inside for it to be a repro. What about it makes you think its a repro?

I'm saying it looks like a P Hughes made T cover. Exactly like a P Hughes T cover. Like I said he made several of these a few years back. Original material...already marked with the RIA stamp. Original WWII thread. Original WWII webbing. Original WWII buckles. I'm just saying it looks like one of his. I have seen his T covers on ebay advertised as originals. When I see one I contact the dealer but I have never had any luck getting them to change their description. Pre 98 comes to mind.

Hughes has made Para Marine gear that has fooled the Para Marine Collectors.

Hopefully yours is the real deal.

Correction...the Philly stamp. He did make some with the RIA stamp as well but those were Army.

[Corpsmancollector]

I'm saying it looks like a P Hughes made T cover. Exactly like a P Hughes T cover. Like I said he made several of these a few years back. Original material...already marked with the RIA stamp. Original WWII thread. Original WWII webbing. Original WWII buckles. I'm just saying it looks like one of his. I have seen his T covers on ebay advertised as originals. When I see one I contact the dealer but I have never had any luck getting them to change their description. Pre 98 comes to mind.

Hughes has made Para Marine gear that has fooled the Para Marine Collectors.

Hopefully yours is the real deal.

Correction...the Philly stamp. He did make some with the RIA stamp as well but those were Army.

 

Ronnie,

 

Do you happen to know how many shovel covers were made and whether a - they all had a stamp of some kind, whether RIA or Philla. Depot? and b - Did all the USMC covers have USMC type hooks? Are there any other features we may be able to look out for? And lastly (I promise!) what paramarine items were made? (camo shovel covers?)

 

On a similar note for all, what is the general consensus on the red Philla. Depot markings? I have seen them on M41 (2nd type, roll top) knapsacks and have never been 100% certain of their origin. I'm not saying they're bad, just curious as to opinions.

 

Sorry m1a2u2, hope I haven't de-railed your topic! I like the looks of the gear you picked up, the first aid pouch is certainly a keeper! There was a topic started recently in the field gear section detailing different variations of the pouch, you may want to post pictures of yours there too :thumbsup:

 

Will

[Ronnie]

Ronnie,

 

Do you happen to know how many shovel covers were made and whether a - they all had a stamp of some kind, whether RIA or Philla. Depot? and b - Did all the USMC covers have USMC type hooks? Are there any other features we may be able to look out for? And lastly (I promise!) what paramarine items were made? (camo shovel covers?)

 

On a similar note for all, what is the general consensus on the red Philla. Depot markings? I have seen them on M41 (2nd type, roll top) knapsacks and have never been 100% certain of their origin. I'm not saying they're bad, just curious as to opinions.

 

Sorry m1a2u2, hope I haven't de-railed your topic! I like the looks of the gear you picked up, the first aid pouch is certainly a keeper! There was a topic started recently in the field gear section detailing different variations of the pouch, you may want to post pictures of yours there too :thumbsup:

 

Will

Will My guess is that he made about 20 T covers he did place the USMC wire hanger on the Marine ones however I don't know if he had enough to go around. The ones with The RIA stamps were all WWI types...canvas, buckle, etc. He did make some USMC camo covers, at least one sold as original by Pre 98. I did send them emails to correct this but they did not respond. He made 2 types of camo covers, one simply a standard cover but made from cam material, the other ones were the very rare kind you see in the Marine books.

At the SOS two years ago a man came by my table and saw some items that Phil had made for me. These items were made from USMC camo material. He went nuts. Was fascinated! He couldn't get his money out fast enough, thinking they were the real deal. When I told him that they were newly made, from all original material, thread, lift the dots, wire hooks, and canvas he just could' t believe the quality. So he asked for my makers name. Phil is very introverted...shy...doesn't communicate well but he and I are buddies and he will make or attempt to make just about anything I throw out there. I contacted him right then...at the show and told him this guy wanted to talk to him so he said For him to go through me. So this guy, being a para marine collector sent me photos of several items, and several yards of camo material along with hooks, buckles, snaps, the whole 9 yards. I sent it to my buddy and he made the items requested. When the collector showed the items to other para marine collectors...they were fooled. Now the collector did not and has not sold the items Phil made for him. His intentions were honorable. Only to fill holes in his collection. He and I have since become friends and we saw each and visited last week at the

SOS.

As for being able to distinguish one from the other I don't know if one can.

Hope this helps.

[Bagman]

ALL HANDS !

 

I have been VERY reluctant to comment in this thread. I don't like saying anything that might hurt someone's feelings, or start a potentially contentious argument. I also don't want to come off as some kind of self-annointed "expert" on the subject. What I DON'T know about this stuff would fill volumes! I will voice what I hope I can fairly call an informed opinion based on study in this area over the last few years.

 

That's my disclaimer. Here are the opinions:

 

!) m1a2u2's shovel cover is, in my opinion, a recreation made from original materials. I don't have any idea who made it, but there are several construction details that are at variance with rock solid originals in my possession or that I have seen in person or in pictures. I am not going to provide a detailed checklist for potential recreationists, but one of the biggest issues is the absence of edge tape used on the cover opening. The material of the cover body is simply turned under once and stitched down leaving a raw edge visible. I have never seen that with an original cover. Most repros have the edge tape like originals. This one does not.

 

Placement of other features are not what you can see on the real McCoys. I say that sitting here looking at two repro covers. One was a $135 mistake on Ebay (with the same red stamp) before I knew any better, and one was purchased from the maker as an admitted repro at a JAG show in Louisville several years ago. The two covers have serveral construction similarities to those on the cover being discussed. These similarities are not found on originals.

 

2)A major issue I have with m1a2u2's cover also speaks to Will's questions about that nice red "USMC/PHILA. DEPOT" stamp. I will state categorically that the stamp is a modern sales gimmick! It can be found on real, but otherwise unmarked, original pieces, and on fakes like my Ebay mistake ET cover (and the cover being discussed). It can be found where it should NOT be. It can be found where a hopeful Marine Corps collector would HOPE to find SOMETHING to convince himself the item he is looking at is correct....That bright red stamp is a neon sign saying "I'm a Marine item for sure!! BUY ME!! BUY ME!!". It has been a very effective sales tool. The fact that I found this stamp on a shovel cover that I know is a fake, tells me all I need to know about the stamp......

 

The only good thing about the red stamp is that, at least on my bogus ET cover, the ink is NOT permanent. I blotted some of it off with a wet paper towel. That might come in handy to remove a stamp that has been added to an original piece.

 

No offense intended with anything I have opionated upon. Rejoinders welcome in the spirit of getting at the truth.

 

Respectfully,

 

Terry ("Bagman")

 

P.S. To Will--I have five Marine shovel covers that appear to be absolutely real. NONE has that distinctive "Z" , or "crooked" hook. However, they all have the Marine Corps version of the M1910 (???) hook which varies from the hooks found on Army gear. They seem to be made of a slightly thinner gauge iron/steel wire, and the "U-bends" are deeper and more open. No Army hooks on my covers. Cannot speak for others.

[Bagman]

m1a2u2--

 

I forgot to compliment you on that VERY decent "Type 1" Philadelphia Depot made First Aid Pouch. It shows honest useage, but still has BOTH grommets firmly attached. Usually they are found torn out or hanging by a thread. The hook even looks to be original. This pouch is your BEST pickup. Nice going. :thumbsup:

 

I can't imagine what happened with that bayonet scabbard cover. Almost looks like someone dunked the leather tip into dubbing or something akin to it.

 

Regards,

 

Terry ("Bagman")

[Bagman]

Here are examples of that "USMC/PHILA. DEPOT" ink stamp where I would NOT expect to see them. Taken from Ebay auctions.

 

Bagman

[m1a2u2]

Here are examples of that "USMC/PHILA. DEPOT" ink stamp where I would NOT expect to see them. Taken from Ebay auctions.

 

Bagman

 

Bagman

 

Thanks for the very informative advice. It's a shame that people have to distort history in order to make a buck. It makes no sense to me that there would be a Phila Depot stamp as well as a Long stamp on the same item. Seems almost too obvious to be fake but who knows.

 

Thanks again!