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Rank on Vietnam jungle jackets


cbuehler
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All,

I am new to VN uniforms and one question always comes up. I often seen period OD jungle jackets, especially early pattern types, that have name tapes or patches but no rank,

I recently obtained a worn 2nd pattern jacket that has in country made name and US Army tapes and a color 25th Div. shoulder patch that appear to have always been on the jacket, but no rank or any evidence that there ever was on the collar or sleeves

Even photos often show no rank in the field.

Does anyone have more insight on this? Thanks.

 

CB

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All,

I am new to VN uniforms and one question always comes up. I often seen period OD jungle jackets, especially early pattern types, that have name tapes or patches but no rank,

I recently obtained a worn 2nd pattern jacket that has in country made name and US Army tapes and a color 25th Div. shoulder patch that appear to have always been on the jacket, but no rank or any evidence that there ever was on the collar or sleeves

Even photos often show no rank in the field.

Does anyone have more insight on this? Thanks.

 

CB

 

When grunts returned from a patrol the dirty uniform was just dumped in a pile; another clean set was picked up and worn.

You were not certain to get your old uniform back. So no need for rank or in some cases name tapes.

Now your go to town set would be fully marked.

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  • 2 weeks later...

From what I have read, the US Army moved away from sleeve rank insignia for several reasons. As noted, there was no need for it on field uniforms because members in units knew who was who. Also, it cut down on the need for supplying such insignia and the expense of having them sewn on. Given that many uniforms were simply trashed after being in the field, this was considered a waste.

 

But also from what I understand the other issue was to cut down on the visibility of senior NCO's in the field. Even at a distance and with subdued insignia, sleeve rank for anybody above the rank of E-5 could be picked out and subsequently picked off.

 

I've seen photos of the Sergeant Major for the 173rd ABN in the field wearing subdued sleeve rank. Those stripes, proud as they are, have to be about eight inches tall, and looked like an aiming point on a target. He stood out like a sore thumb and would not have been hard to pick out.

 

According to Shelby Stanton's book, US Army Uniforms of the Vietnam War, "In July 1967 USARV concurred with the adoption of subdued pin on metal insignia of rank for enlisted men, in leiu of sew-on cloth insignia....Three pairs of pin-on insignia were issued to each enlisted man..." (except for flight crew due to safety issues.)

 

Of course, this later evolved to sewn on collar insignia for enlisted men. These were often seen on rear area personnel who were more likely to keep their uniforms for a longer period of time, or for ceremonial/ formation fatigues kept by field troops (they usually had one or two fully badged sets.)

 

Take a second look at the collars for your example. Sometimes the pin holes from the metal insignia are hard to spot, especially if it has been laundered. But then again, it would be correct to say even after the pin on insignia were issued many went to the field without it.

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No rank insignia would be correct on a PRIVATE's (rank: E-1 & E-2) uniform; as they had No rank insignia authorized.

 

IIRC the rank structure during the Vietnam war (besides for all the Specialist ranks) was the same as it is today. E-2's do have a rank insignia, E-1's do not. But as described earlier, a lot of times rank was not worn in the field.

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IIRC the rank structure during the Vietnam war (besides for all the Specialist ranks) was the same as it is today. E-2's do have a rank insignia, E-1's do not. But as described earlier, a lot of times rank was not worn in the field.

 

Good point and agree. One more reason you might not see rank. Although I had understood that E-1's serving combat tours were promoted fairly quickly... any thoughts on that?

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IIRC the rank structure during the Vietnam war (besides for all the Specialist ranks) was the same as it is today. E-2's do have a rank insignia, E-1's do not. But as described earlier, a lot of times rank was not worn in the field.

NOT TRUE > in the 1960's Pvt. E-1 & E-2 had NO RANK INSIGNIA > it was Not "the same as today". PFC had one vertical stripe; which was later changed to a vertical stripe with a rocker under, & it was at that time that PVT. E-2 was authorized wear of the former PFC (one vertical) stripe. Do some research; before You post mis-information!

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Good point and agree. One more reason you might not see rank. Although I had understood that E-1's serving combat tours were promoted fairly quickly... any thoughts on that?

>>> Many an Enlisted man was "busted" to Private E-1 at Special Courts Martial (that would have been the easy part of punishment; as they could also get 6 months imprisonment at Long Bien) As an extra duty: I was Defense Counsel for all Enlisted men charged at these Courts Martials in the II Corps. area (Central Highlands) of Vietnam; for most of 1968.

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NOT TRUE > in the 1960's Pvt. E-1 & E-2 had NO RANK INSIGNIA > it was Not "the same as today". PFC had one vertical stripe; which was later changed to a vertical stripe with a rocker under, & it was at that time that PVT. E-2 was authorized wear of the former PFC (one vertical) stripe. Do some research; before You post mis-information!

 

I just pulled the newspaper archives here at the post museum where I work for 1968 and it shows people in the photos with one chevron and a rocker with captions lableing them as a PFC so could you please, in your most friendly tone, let me know what year this changed if you could please? Thank you.

 

Just taking your advise on the research part. ;)

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IIRC the rank structure during the Vietnam war (besides for all the Specialist ranks) was the same as it is today. E-2's do have a rank insignia, E-1's do not. But as described earlier, a lot of times rank was not worn in the field.

 

 

Insignia for E-2s did not come about until 1968 when the Private First Class chevrons with the stripe and rocker were introduced. Prior to this the single stripe was for a PFC (E-3). Privates (E-1 and E-2) did not wear any rank insignia. The older PFC stripe then became Pvt E-2.

 

Take a look at the shadow box I have posted in the display area for the 2/47th Infantry Veteran. I have a single stripe for PFC, then Specialist rank and Sergeant stripes. This was correct for that period since he was a private/PFC in 1966 and 1967. He made Specialist in 1967 and Sergeant in 1968. The stripes at the bottom of the frame were his originals. The Sergeant stripes were a pair of mine as his are still sewn to his Class A's.

 

It can get confusing at times....especially if you look back to the NCO ranks from the late 50s up until the 1970s. When the E-8 and E-9 paygrades were introduced they also reintroduced the "Buck" Sergeant rank at paygrade E-5. Prior to that, E-5s were Staff Sergeants with 3 stripes and a rocker. The Army didn't make them remove the stripes and replace them with the new 3 stripe rank, so that it wouldn't appear they had been busted. They could wear the old stripes until they were either promoted or reduced in rank. My Dad was a Sergeant E-5 and wore 3 stripes with a rocker, when he was promoted to E-6, he didn't have to change stripes. So you had guys wearing the same stripes, but were two different paygrades.

 

Laury

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I just pulled the newspaper archives here at the post museum where I work for 1968 and it shows people in the photos with one chevron and a rocker with captions lableing them as a PFC so could you please, in your most friendly tone, let me know what year this changed if you could please? Thank you.

 

Just taking your advise on the research part. ;)

 

 

Per the Institute of Heraldry website: The insignia consisting of a single chevron, which was previously authorized for private first class, was authorized for Privates E2. A new insignia was authorized for Private First Class, which consisted of one chevron above one arc per DA Message 868848, 28 May 1968.

 

Laury

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