Officers Equipment Company, Madison, NJ: examples and patterns

[mtnman]

Hello All, been Moving, missed you guys! but I do have an answer. These are die struck Officer Supply Co. Wings. Seen them on the actual card they came on before. Unique design!

[88thcollector]

it is true that the law requires a trademark on sterling but it is violated so frequently that the lack of a trademark on a wing or anything else should not be considered at all as a warning sign. I handle lots of sterling flatware and hollowware a month and see pieces marked only sterling all of the time. I scrap most of it and have never had a piece returned by the smelter.

[gliderman1]

After more investigation:

 

US gov contracts did and do cause manufacturers to violate US gov laws. Purortedly, this forced violation is handled by the wording of the contract. Reversing my previous statement, the WWII wings marked Sterling, without a trademark, were gov contract wings made for gov distribution (free presentation) to pilot graduates. Gov contract prohibited use of the company ID (trademark) on those contracted wings. Wings made during that period with Sterling quality mark and a Trademark were made for distribution for retail sale, in whatever type retail operation. These wings with quality and trademark were not contracted by the gov, and to be legal, meet the stamping act requirements. Because these wings were not under Gov contract, they could have variations that would not be allowed under gov contract. I am told, the fine for violation of the stamping act was and is $5000 per item. Today, there are assigned government marks or designations used (with quality mark) instead of a commercial trademark in order to make the quality mark legal.

 

During WWII for Gov contracted wings the gov furnished drawings and specifications for wings and the gov loaned hubs to the wing manufacturers, thus the similarity in wings from different manufacturers.

 

I agree that violation of all this might be akin to running a stop sign or a red light. It is done every day, but that does not mean you will get away with it forever. It will eventually kill you or cost you money.

[BEAST]

 

Hello All, been Moving, missed you guys! but I do have an answer. These are die struck Officer Supply Co. Wings. Seen them on the actual card they came on before. Unique design!

 

Thanks MTNMAN for the info! Don't happen to have a photo of these or similar on the cards do you? Or know where I can find a copy of their catalog?

[BEAST]

 

Maybe some other folks can post wings built from the same pattern for other wings i.e. AG...

 

I glad I can help a little and maybe spark some additional thought on this topic.

 

Cheers

 

P.S. Take a look Bob's site start with the AG wings and see if ya see something in the ballpark.

 

John,

 

I tried to PM you but your box is full. Thank you for posting these examples!

[pfrost]

I still feel that these wings are fantasy reproductions. Designed to fool collectors.

 

You periodically see "E" (flight engineer) and "R" (more than likely for radio operators) placed on an observer or pilot wing. These were freqeuntly made in theater (CBI) not stateside. You also sometimes see English made bullion observer wings with a "G", "R", "L" or "AG"(and likely a few others) emborodered in the center. These were more than likely the local English attempts to anticipate or replicate what the new gunner wings were going to look like. At least that is what the owner of these "G" wings told me. He was a B24 gunner, and went overseas with only the aircrewman wing. He told me that when he got to England, he bought a pair of these wings because he couldn't get ahold of the metal ones with the bullet.

 

The stateside manufactures, while taking some liberties with patterns, knew that there was no market for blatantly non-compliant insignia and they would have been well aware of what the new insignia was going to look like.

[Patchcollector]

After more investigation:

 

US gov contracts did and do cause manufacturers to violate US gov laws. Purortedly, this forced violation is handled by the wording of the contract. Reversing my previous statement, the WWII wings marked Sterling, without a trademark, were gov contract wings made for gov distribution (free presentation) to pilot graduates. Gov contract prohibited use of the company ID (trademark) on those contracted wings. Wings made during that period with Sterling quality mark and a Trademark were made for distribution for retail sale, in whatever type retail operation. These wings with quality and trademark were not contracted by the gov, and to be legal, meet the stamping act requirements. Because these wings were not under Gov contract, they could have variations that would not be allowed under gov contract. I am told, the fine for violation of the stamping act was and is $5000 per item. Today, there are assigned government marks or designations used (with quality mark) instead of a commercial trademark in order to make the quality mark legal.

 

During WWII for Gov contracted wings the gov furnished drawings and specifications for wings and the gov loaned hubs to the wing manufacturers, thus the similarity in wings from different manufacturers.

 

I agree that violation of all this might be akin to running a stop sign or a red light. It is done every day, but that does not mean you will get away with it forever. It will eventually kill you or cost you money.

 

 

 

Hmm,interesting stuff here.So if I'm reading this right,then the Wings marked only "Sterling" were Govt. procured,and the ones' marked "Sterling" with additional makers' marks were "private buy" items.I had always thought it was the other way around,my thought being the more markings,the more "official"!

[CliffP]

Hello All, been Moving, missed you guys! but I do have an answer. These are die struck Officer Supply Co. Wings. Seen them on the actual card they came on before. Unique design!

 

I lean more toward Mel's assumption. . . but the correct name of the firm was Officers Equipment Company in Madison, NJ which got out of the business in 1947.

 

They really did sell wings late in WWII that were die-stamped in the same pattern shown at the bottom of this post and I have one given to me by Duncan Campbell which he personally bought there; however, I don't disagree with Patrick because a similar pattern is still being made by someone for collectors today.

 

Suggest you check out this thread for additional information on Officers Equipment Company.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/102046-skeleton-back-wings/?hl=%2Bskeleton+%2Bback+%2Bwings

 

Cliff

[CliffP]

So if I'm reading this right, then the Wings marked only "Sterling" were Govt. procured, and the ones' marked "Sterling" with additional makers' marks were "private buy" items.

 

Actually in practice that was not always the case; therefore, additional clarification is needed here.

 

Yes, early in WW2 official War Department Regulations said that issued wings were not suppose to be maker marked; however, that requirement was rarely/if ever enforced; therefore, as the war progressed it was not out of the realm of possibility for a new pilot to be awarded wings with a makers' mark on the back.

 

Cliff

 

[gliderman1]

Hmm,interesting stuff here.So if I'm reading this right,then the Wings marked only "Sterling" were Govt. procured,and the ones' marked "Sterling" with additional makers' marks were "private buy" items.I had always thought it was the other way around,my thought being the more markings,the more "official"!

 

That was my original thinking, but I was told I had it backward. If the Sterling marked wing without trademark was made under gov contract during the war it was sterling. and the gov likely checked production, unannounced. If it was made for wholesale/retail market, it had to observe the stamping act and carry the trademark if it carried the Sterling mark. Abbreviation stamp such as Ster is not legal description and likely means the item is not Sterling. Then intent to fraud or deceive comes into play.

 

Problem today is, is the item a WWII article or is it a faked reproduction that is or may not be .925 (which is the quality they are selling)? I can see that the fine of $5,000 each item is a deterent for legitimate mfg. Then, what about a non-legit guy in for a fast buck or if the real source is not in the US? Even the "innocent" guy handling and offering for sale the Sterling item that is not Sterling, is in for a potential $5,000 ride for each item, if he gets caught running the red light (if the FTC is called in).

[John Cooper]

 

 

 

John,

 

I tried to PM you but your box is full. Thank you for posting these examples!

Beast I sent you a PM. You are welcome... I hope this helped you shed some light on these wings. I know I am a bit of the suspicious side but I would keep them base on what I said in the PM.

 

Cheers

[BEAST]

Beast I sent you a PM. You are welcome... I hope this helped you shed some light on these wings. I know I am a bit of the suspicious side but I would keep them base on what I said in the PM.

 

Cheers

 

John, Got the PM. Thanks again for all of your help!

 

[BEAST]

 

I lean more toward Mel's assumption. . . but the correct name of the firm was Officers Equipment Company in Madison, NJ which got out of the business in 1947.

 

They really did sell wings late in WWII that were die-stamped in the same pattern shown at the bottom of this post and I have one given to me by Duncan Campbell which he personally bought there; however, I don't disagree with Patrick because a similar pattern is still being made by someone for collectors today.

 

Suggest you check out this thread for additional information on Officers Equipment Company.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/102046-skeleton-back-wings/?hl=%2Bskeleton+%2Bback+%2Bwings

 

Cliff

Cliff,

 

Thank you for your input and the link to the Officer Equipment Company thread.

[CliffP]

 

One more thing for any who have the book by Duncan Campbell. In it, and I quote:

 

"Other unauthorized wing badges not illustrated include some made in error and not withdrawn from sale. When glider, service and liaison wing badges were prescribed in September 1942, one manufacture "jumped the gun" in his haste to grab the market and erroneously applied the letter G, S, or L inside the center O of the observer's wing badge. These were never worn but did become available as war surplus in 1945 from military (surplus) outfitters (like Officer's Equipment Company). "

 

Cliff

[rustywings]

 

One more thing for any who have the book by Duncan Campbell. In it, and I quote:

 

"Other unauthorized wing badges not illustrated include some made in error and not withdrawn from sale. When glider, service and liaison wing badges were prescribed in September 1942, one manufacture "jumped the gun" in his haste to grab the market and erroneously applied the letter G, S, or L inside the center O of the observer's wing badge. These were never worn but did become available as war surplus in 1945 from military (surplus) outfitters (like Officer's Equipment Company). "

 

Cliff

 

Excellent information!

[BROBS]

agreed... so much knowledge on this site!

 

-Brian

[BEAST]

 

One more thing for any who have the book by Duncan Campbell. In it, and I quote:

 

"Other unauthorized wing badges not illustrated include some made in error and not withdrawn from sale. When glider, service and liaison wing badges were prescribed in September 1942, one manufacture "jumped the gun" in his haste to grab the market and erroneously applied the letter G, S, or L inside the center O of the observer's wing badge. These were never worn but did become available as war surplus in 1945 from military (surplus) outfitters (like Officer's Equipment Company). "

 

Cliff

 

Thanks Cliff!

 

[BEAST]

Here is another example of "G" on an observer wing that was sold on eBay in 2007. According to the seller, these appear to have been made by GEMSCO. Below the photos is the description form the auction. Please note that I am not showing the information below as documentation as we all know that eBay should never be considered a primary source!

 

BTW, did any member here buy the pair of "G" on observer wings sold by AGM earlier this month? I believe that according to the description, they were made by AMCRAFT.

 

 

 

 

"Offered is a 3 inch, pinback, silver plated AAF Glider Pilot wing. The wing is not hallmarked, but it is a GEMSCO 1st style glass graduation wing in which the G has been applied to an observer wing. When the Gov't regulations were approved for issuance of a Glider Pilot wing, several companies, such as Gemsco, applied the G over the observer wing in order to get the wings to the first graduating classes. Later on, the G was appied to the standard pilots wing. This is a rare variation as most of these wings were destroyed when the standard wings began to be issued. This is the only GEMSCO style Glider Pilot wing with the G on the observer wing that I have ever seen. The wing is in excellent condition and guaranteed to be an original WWII wing. Shipping with insurance is a flat $5.00. Please note that I ship only on the Saturday after payment has been confirmed."

[BROBS]

you know... the more I look at the back of your wings, the more the flashing/edges look just like my Amcraft pilot wings.

maybe a clue? anyone have a pic of an Amcraft observer wing? Were the regular observer wings marked?

 

-Brian

[BEAST]

Flying Tiger Antiques recently sold a pair of the OEC wings still on the card. I thought I would add their photos to this thread for future reference.

 

These can be found at: http://www.flyingtigerantiques.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=fta&Product_Code=z99afw90013gl&Category_Code=

 

 

 

[BROBS]

wouldn't OEC just be a distributor, not a maker?

 

-Brian

[Patchcollector]

Hi all,
Here is a Glider Wing that doesn't have the shield but the "G" is on an Observers "ring".From the sellers pics it appears that the "G" is separately applied but I'm not certain about that.

 

Here is a portion of the sellers description:
"This Glider Wing was put together from the manufacturers stock of Observer Wings. They had not received the Governments specifications for the wing and in a rush to get them on the shelves they merely added a "G" to the center of the wing and boom they had their Glider Wing. The wing has no markings on the back. It is full size, 3 1/8 inches."

 

I checked the WW2Wings.com site but didn't find a match.

 

Not sure when or where or by who it was made so if anybody has any info please let me know.

[pfrost]

This wing has been discussed on the forum before. I think the reviews were mixed. I don't like it myself but I think some others felt differently.

 

P

[pfrost]

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/196736-unusual-glider-pilot-wings-please-weigh-in/?hl=%2Bglider+%2Bwing+%2Bobserver

[Patchcollector]

Wow that's very interesting.I had forgotten that thread that I'd commented on a few years back.Thank you for the link.I shall have these in hand soon and when I get them I will post some detailed photos.