Officers Equipment Company, Madison, NJ: examples and patterns

[Patchcollector]

I'm no expert by any means,but my thought is if no one has seen this pattern in the last 70 years or so,they are either exceedingly rare,or recently made.

[John Cooper]

Beast,

 

Contact the seller and see if he/she will pass you contact info to the other buyer. I have had some success with this in the past.

 

Can you check how are the fittings attached under magnification.

 

Cheers

[BEAST]

Beast,

 

Contact the seller and see if he/she will pass you contact info to the other buyer. I have had some success with this in the past.

 

Can you check how are the fittings attached under magnification.

 

Cheers

 

Good idea John. I'll check with the seller and see if she can put me into contact with the other buyer.

 

I'm not sure what I am looking for with the fittings. They seem to be neatly attached, soldered I believe. Here are a couple of close-ups. If I should be looking for something else, let me know.

 

 

[BEAST]

I'm no expert by any means,but my thought is if no one has seen this pattern in the last 70 years or so,they are either exceedingly rare,or recently made.

 

Patchcollector, I would think that also. A photo of these being worn would be very handy right now. I've googled various terms trying to find a site selling these and haven't found it yet.

 

[BROBS]

would all that grinding along the edge be where they ground off all the flashing from a cast?

 

-Brian

[John Cooper]

BROBS those are marks typical of a die struck wing. As for this being a cast wing I do not see the typical signs of that.

 

I hope some other wingnuts will chime in.

 

Cheers

[pfrost]

I'm not feeling the love with these wings.

[BROBS]

BROBS those are marks typical of a die struck wing. As for this being a cast wing I do not see the typical signs of that.

 

I hope some other wingnuts will chime in.

 

Cheers

John,

I know I have seen die struck with these grinding marks... but never quite so thick?

It almost looks like where some "flashing" went out over a casting mold.

 

Perhaps they are good? I am not experienced with wings of this type. (let's be honest... with any wing )

 

-Brian

[John Cooper]

Brian,

 

I think the photo has something to do with how think they appear. As for being die struck that does not guarantee period wings just the process by which they have been produced.

 

I think beast alluded to the post war produced wings by S&S which produced lots of wings for there catalog.

 

Cheers

[John Cooper]

Beast I was looking at one of the photos and noticed what appears to be brass showing through in the shoulder area on the right side. Is this what it appears to you under close inspection?

 

Additionally if possible can you post a macro shot in nature light of the should area?

 

Cheers

John

[BEAST]

Beast I was looking at one of the photos and noticed what appears to be brass showing through in the shoulder area on the right side. Is this what it appears to you under close inspection?

 

Additionally if possible can you post a macro shot in nature light of the should area?

 

Cheers

John

John,

 

I looked at the shoulder area using a magnifying glass and don't see brass. But I will look at them under natural light and get a few more photos. I also measured their length and wing tip to wing tip they are just over 3" so none of the shrinkage associated with a casting.

[John Cooper]

Beast,

 

Here is a photo to consider - The top wing as you will see is a solid back version marked sterling. The second wing is like yours except the patina, the small pools of solder the fitting sit in and the finer finishing. Finally there is a test strike of the pattern.

 

I consider these to be good wings but I am open to any information to any new information.

 

Cheers

 

[John Cooper]

Here is the reverse photo.

 

[Patchcollector]

John,I think that you are on to something.That center wing looks very similar to Beasts.Perhaps the maker was experimenting with different designations,and produced a few of the Glider ones.It may even be a prototype.

[BEAST]

John,I think that you are on to something.That center wing looks very similar to Beasts.Perhaps the maker was experimenting with different designations,and produced a few of the Glider ones.It may even be a prototype.

IF REAL, here's my theory on why these were made. Both gliders and observation aircraft could be piloted by enlistedmen. Both the liaison and glider pilot's wings that I have posted mimic the aircrew wing as opposed to the traditional pilot's wing. Maybe initial guidance on the pattern of the wings was not clear to all of the manufactures.

Once again, just a SWAG and not all that scientific.

[John Cooper]

Maybe some other folks can post wings built from the same pattern for other wings i.e. AG...

 

I glad I can help a little and maybe spark some additional thought on this topic.

 

Cheers

 

P.S. Take a look Bob's site start with the AG wings and see if ya see something in the ballpark.

[BEAST]

Beast I was looking at one of the photos and noticed what appears to be brass showing through in the shoulder area on the right side. Is this what it appears to you under close inspection?

 

Additionally if possible can you post a macro shot in nature light of the should area?

 

Cheers

John

 

John,

 

Sorry it has taken so long to respond to your request. Here are two photos taken of the shoulder area that shows the most wear. Both taken in natural light. Looking at them in hand, I don't see the brass.

 

[BROBS]

looks like a lot of flaws in the feathers?

 

-Brian

[5thwingmarty]

I am no wing expert, but I can verify that some of these "letter wings" made with observer type bases are genuine. I know a flight engineer from the 99th BG who was issued a flight engineer wing when he graduated from I believe a Boeing school. The wing is an observer type with an applied E. He did not know they were unusual wings when I asked him about them, he just said everyone in his class was issued them. I think they were Gemsco wings.

[BEAST]

Thought I might try grasping at straws while I was at it.

 

Here are a pair of WWII British 2nd Glider Pilot wings. Of course the wings I have originally shown are not theater made, I am just wondering if they were influenced by these. I copied this photo from a British WW2 airborne militaria site. http://home.tiscali.nl/nijsten/qualificationbadges.html

 

 

[gliderman1]

This wing vatiation subject is intriguing. I am not a wing expert and don't collect them. I have seen and held in my hands what is supposed to be the German, circa 1946 made G wings and I was told they are the most rare G wings?. However, I could not identify these wings if I was handed a pair of them unless I was told what they wre. To add to my confusion is my lifelong experience in the jewelry business which raises many questions in the marking of all varieties wings thjat are available today.

 

U.S. law since around 1906 or thereabouts says that metals need not be quality marked or trademarked. However, law does say that if an item is quality marked, it must be trademarked to identify the company (person) who says it is a specific quality. Trademark can be used without quality mark but not quality mark without trademark. U.S.quality mark, Sterling, means the item has to be minimum of 92.5 % pure silver. To mark an item Sterling without a trademark is not acceptable or legal in the U.S. and has not been legal for over 100 years. Trademarks must be registered (with exceptions). A few years ago, I was told by a seller who was trying to justify his reproductions, quality marked without trademark, that this quality/trademark law was suspended by "The government" during WWII. Duh? Shades of today's dictatorship in D.C.? In looking at info on the internet, it appears to me that the truly legitimate manufactureres (such as N.S. Meyer Balfour, Blackington, etc) all seem to have quality mark and trademark. So who made all the available wings carrying a quality mark but no trademark? Have they been tested to verify the silver content?

 

I have never seen one, has anyone ever seen a contract order from the Army for any type of wings? What does it specify?

 

A few days ago I found a web reference to this round (observer) center G wing as being a Burma wing?? Does not make sense to me because wings were awarded at graduation, by the Army, in the U.S. All the 1AC glider pilots were graduated glider pilots, awarded wings, before they were selected for 1AC and went to Burma.

 

http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/usaaf/usaafmain.shtml

 

Looking over this web site shows the round center (observer) wing used for various types of wings. None of the round center are shown as GP or power pilot wings ???

 

Does anyone know of a summary of various mfg and the style of wing they made?

 

Does anyone know the history of wing distribution? That is, which styles of wings and manufacturers did the Army buy? Which styles and mfg. were sold in PX and which ones were sold through jewelers or dealers or street vendors other than the Army?

 

Charles Day.

[BROBS]

I think the problem is that there really is no way to find out.

 

There are plenty of items quality marked but not maker marked... even today.

I am not sure what law you are quoting, but if there is such a law... I doubt it is enforced.

There are wings attributed to Blackinton etc that are not maker marked as well.

 

-Brian

[gliderman1]

http://www.925-1000.com/a_StampingAct1906.html

 

If anything is attributed to a manufacturer verbally or even in writing, but not marked per the stamping act, then, buyer beware.

 

The Federal Trade Commission is the enforcer. At this time they are pretty busy with cases concerning precious metals investment scams. They also do not generally go looking for trouble without receiving complaints from consumers.

 

Go to your jewelry store, find a karat gold or sterling piece, find the quality mark and the trademark on the piece and ask the jeweler what the marks mean and why the marks are there.

 

Sears and a couple other large retail chains were "nailed" several years ago for selling improperly marked, imported, purported karat gold, neckchain.

[BROBS]

Right, but do you think this is something heavily enforced? especially during wartime?

I doubt anyone, even the QM depots, would have lodged such a complaint.

 

-Brian

[gliderman1]

Since my last post, I have been told that the gov contracts for wings made inder contract to Gov for Gov distibution (NOT sales) to graduate pilots prohibited the placing of trademark and quality mark on those pieces. Though not written proof of this action, the gov supposedly did not want recipients to have reason to believe one wing was better than another.

 

Not directly related but similar, the gov stopped Ford and Willys from stamping those names into sheet metal on back of Jeeps to stop favoritisn amount soldiers. Of course, a fallacy to this is the the nomenclature plate on right dashboard still had Ford or Willys on it....

 

The omission of quality and trade marks did not apply to wings made for sale as opposed to free presentation for graduation. In any case if the gov forced the mfg to use quality mark, but not trade mark, the gov would be forcing the mfg to violate the stamping act. Did this happen?

 

So, could this mean that the law abiding wings which have both quality and trademark were NOT under gov contract and were not sold to gov for distribution as graduation wings? That these law abiding wings were retail market wings sold in PX, BX, and to non-gov retail locations?

 

My opinion is that the wings, old or new that have quality mark but no trademark, were then and are now, being made for retail sale, not on gov contract and they violate the stamping act. Based on what I was told by a dealer selling quality mark without trade mark a few years ago there is a pretence that this is acceptable and gov approved when in fact it is not true and is only a story used for the sales pitch. At least until I see it written on a gov order or directive.

 

How many of the un-trademarked wings with sterling quality mark, new or old, have ever been tested for metal quality?

 

That it is and was not contested is that the market is so small and, as you say during war time, it would have been overlooked by most.even if they were aware.

 

I once asked a WWII glider pilot friend if he remembered the name of the tire manufacturers of CG-4A glider he flew. He laughed and said who cared, they had air in them and they were nice to sit on in the shade of the wing.

 

Charles Day