"The Pacific" Band of Brothers for the Pacific War

[Pfc-Grunt]

Well, I thoroughly enjoyed BoB and many other similar dramas. But, having seen the first three episodes I have too say it is a load of C**P.

Bad acting, bad story line, bad uniforms, Need I continue?

I probably will give it one more episode to prove its self.

[stonewaller]

"Bad acting, bad story line, bad uniforms, Need I continue?"

 

Please don't. I Personally thought the acting, especially by the actors portraying Robert Leckie, and Eugene Sledge was fantastic. As for the uniforms, there may be a few very minor innacuracies, but if you could please point out why they are bad? And the Storyline? Isn't it based on a true story? That thing called the second world war?

 

"I probably will give it one more episode to prove its self. "

 

Considering your harsh, sweeping judgements after just 3 episodes of 10, i'm pretty sure it doesn't need to prove itself, as there will be millions out there who look into it slightly deeper than that and can appreciate it.

[Corpsmancollector]

"Bad acting, bad story line, bad uniforms, Need I continue?"

 

Please don't. I Personally thought the acting, especially by the actors portraying Robert Leckie, and Eugene Sledge was fantastic. As for the uniforms, there may be a few very minor innacuracies, but if you could please point out why they are bad? And the Storyline? Isn't it based on a true story? That thing called the second world war?

 

"I probably will give it one more episode to prove its self. "

 

Considering your harsh, sweeping judgements after just 3 episodes of 10, i'm pretty sure it doesn't need to prove itself, as there will be millions out there who look into it slightly deeper than that and can appreciate it.

 

As discussed previously, the uniforms are 99% accurate and within that accuracy is some fantastic detail. However, we're all here to share opinion and everyone's entitled to their own.

 

Will

[kammo-man]

The content of the show might be off the mark a bit but the uniforms are bang on the money !!!!!!

 

owen

[Sabrejet]

In my humble opinion there's far too much nit-picking here about relatively trivial things. To do so is MISSING THE BIGGER PICTURE (pun intended!) We're being treated to the telling of a story that's never been told in this sweeping visual manner before... nor probably ever will be again! Be glad, be grateful...and enjoy! It really doesn't matter at all if the dungarees are the wrong shade of green or the EGAs are of the wrong type etc etc....does it?!

 

Sabrejet :pinch:

[kjones5452]

Something tells me that if there had never been an BAND OF BROTHERS people would,in my

opinion,be singin a different tune.Also,in my opinion,as far as the F ing word and the sex,Leckies'

could have been handled differently,didn't see Basilones' but did hear it from the kitchin and haven't

caught a replay so I can't say.What I will say is that this show/series/has a rating system this could or

should be remembered when watching with others that we might not be all that comfortable with,youngsters,

pre-teens,etc,etc. I read Band Of Brothers long before HBO.Maybe thats what needs to be done here.I won't

quit watching like I'm making some protest/boycott. I'll watch cause it's a WAR!!! picture! IT's got GUNS!!! and

SHOOTING PEOPLE!!!! and all kinds of neat stuff BLOWIN UP!!!!! and NEAT GEAR!!!!! and CAMOFLAGE!!!! and

everything else thats just happens to make my little world turn at this particular time. :w00t:

[m1ashooter]

War is a brutal thing it always has been, so one shouldn't be surprised at mans inhumanity to man.

[Fixbayonets!]

In my humble opinion there's far too much nit-picking here about relatively trivial things. To do so is MISSING THE BIGGER PICTURE (pun intended!) We're being treated to the telling of a story that's never been told in this sweeping visual manner before... nor probably ever will be again! Be glad, be grateful...and enjoy! It really doesn't matter at all if the dungarees are the wrong shade of green or the EGAs are of the wrong type etc etc....does it?!

 

Sabrejet :pinch:

 

I am in total agreement with Saberjets opinion. I bet the coin, stamp & postcard collectors are saying "I wish they would make a 10 part mini series featuring all the things I collect."

 

Rob

[Chris_B]

When it comes to the atrocities, looks like they are trying to rewrite history and make the U.S look like the bad guys. :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

 

I'm sorry if someone thinks this stuff did not happen. I have known many WW2 vets, and a few Marines and Army vets from the "Pacific" . This stuff did happen! I have seen the teeth myself on numerous occasions. Our propaganda machine worked good along with seeing what the Japanese did to our men. I knew one Marine that when I asked him about the "Japs" never surrendering he laughed and said that they did and he would "Tommy gun those little Japanese bastards" They were taught to hate and de-humanize the enemy and after seeing battle became de-humanized themselves. Some never recovered from it and others just lived with it till they passed away. I like the show overall, as it shows many things other shows don't, the bordom, not knowing what is going on but with your small section, the weather affects on them the other things that they did other than fighting, etc.. Sure I would have loved to see some of the other actions on the "canal" shown, but what can one say, they only have 10 hours to show a 4 year war.

I did not write this to offend anyone, just my opinion,

Terry

 

Hi Terry

 

I don't think anyone is saying that the marines did NOT do any of this. The issue is that the Japanese look like choirboys who are being picked on by the mean evil marines

 

By showing one side of the issue, the facts are NOT represented, and that's the issue many people, myself included, are concerned about.

[Justin]

So while watching part 5 of The Pacific, the time line hit me. 2 years have past already since part one... does anyone not feel the time change like in Band Of Brother?

[Linedoggie]

Sledge mentions the gold teeth in his book. His description is a lot more awful and brutal than what was shown on TV.

Pretty distasteful, but these things did happen in the PTO

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Muti...panese_War_Dead

 

http://www.ppu.org.uk/learn/poetry/poetry_otherwars1.html

 

 

Not all history is pretty, especially in wartime

[dcc8203]

For anybody that can get to the San Antonio, TX area this Saturday afternoon (the 17th) you have an opportunity to hear Hugh Ambrose speak at the Nimitz Museum in Fredricksburg, TX. The event is free of charge.

 

Ambrose is the author of "The Pacific" which is the companion to the HBO series. I'm almost done with it and it adds a lot of depth to the series. The original first person accounts by Leckie and Sledge are more riveting, but this is a well done history of the conflict. He also brings in the contributions of naval aviation to the war.

 

Here is the link:

 

Nimitz Museum Author visit

 

As an added bonus after the presentation they will be doing re-enactments as well, including a flame thrower!

[Blake_E]

Episode one and two just premiered here last night. I've got to say, i really like what i see. Fantastic work. I like the fact that they kept alot of the BOB aspects, smart move and although it doesnt quite match up, they are some big shoes to fill. Remember, band isn't just one of the best WWII shows, but one of the greatest (or some peoples all time fav) shows, PERIOD

I really like the guy playing Leckie, great actor. Was also impressed to see Jon Bernthal playing Rodqriguez (until he carked it ) and i also am liking the bloke who was taking the crap on the log Not very fussed on Basilone's curly haired mate, or Basilone himself, a bit of miss-casting there imvho. Sledge's character seems to be coming along well too, already. So far, i am really impressed that they've at least managed to keep up with BOB, even in just a quality and accuracy sense. The swearing could do with a little toning down, as usual, typical hollywood stuff (btw how hilarious was the birthday song ) but other than that, i can live with it. Uniforms seem fine to me, i'm not that clued on the PTO and what i see looks damn accurate to me, i think A L O T of nitpicking is going on. The average guy (wwii buff, or complete civi) isn't going to tell or take note of subtleties.

One thing i think they should have done a little more of, was VERBALLY informing why the Japanese fight the way they did. Instead of just having these 100+guys running directly into MG fire. At one point, i was kind of a little lost as to why it wasn't a bit more established and they just erupted into this massive fight of suicidal Japs. What i mean is, if you didn't know how the Japanese army fought, you'd be totally lost into thinking that was the norm.

[Kurt Barickman]

Sledge's Gunny was indeed an "animal" or as you read in his book, he has gone "Asiatic." Wonder if they will show the toothbrush scene in a shower back in the Russel Islands

 

Kurt Barickman

[CCA]

I'm surprised at the amount of negative criticism about "The Pacific". I've read 3 of Bob Leckie's books (he wrote 30) and both by Eugene Sledge, and I think the HBO series pretty much stays to the storyline. It's always difficult to separate the man and the myth of John Basilone, even during his lifetime. With that said I think "The Pacific" does a great job of telling his story. He remains a legend in the Marine Corps and will be greater with this series. I'm sorry they missed mentioning Mitchell Paige, who also was awarded the Medal of Honor for action at "Bloody Ridge" on Guadalcanal.

 

Nobody cusses better than an angry Marine. Nobody. Even in WW2. I am the son and nephew of a number of WW2 vets and many lived in my town. When provoked they could cuss like truckdrivers. If you find it offensive, watch something else. War is hell, and I think "The Pacific" makes that point well. Also, it's great to see the 1st Marine Division get their due. They were a lean, mean fighting machine and the most reliable unit in the PTO. Not to detract from the other five Marine divisions, or Army infantry divisions, but the "Old Breed" was the first to launch the counter offensive against Japan and the last unit fighting at the end of the Okinawa campaign. If you are interested in learning more details about the PTO, books are the best place to go. R.V. Burgin (Sledge's mortar section leader), and Sid Phillips (Sledge's pal from Mobile) both have new books recently published.

 

The real story of the fighting men of WW2 comes from them, and I say thank you to them for their service first, and for telling their often very painful stories. They lived the nightmares of savage combat and we are all forever in their debt.

[cutiger83]

I'm surprised at the amount of negative criticism about "The Pacific". I've read 3 of Bob Leckie's books (he wrote 30) and both by Eugene Sledge, and I think the HBO series pretty much stays to the storyline. It's always difficult to separate the man and the myth of John Basilone, even during his lifetime. With that said I think "The Pacific" does a great job of telling his story. He remains a legend in the Marine Corps and will be greater with this series. I'm sorry they missed mentioning Mitchell Paige, who also was awarded the Medal of Honor for action at "Bloody Ridge" on Guadalcanal.

 

Nobody cusses better than an angry Marine. Nobody. Even in WW2. I am the son and nephew of a number of WW2 vets and many lived in my town. When provoked they could cuss like truckdrivers. If you find it offensive, watch something else. War is hell, and I think "The Pacific" makes that point well. Also, it's great to see the 1st Marine Division get their due. They were a lean, mean fighting machine and the most reliable unit in the PTO. Not to detract from the other five Marine divisions, or Army infantry divisions, but the "Old Breed" was the first to launch the counter offensive against Japan and the last unit fighting at the end of the Okinawa campaign. If you are interested in learning more details about the PTO, books are the best place to go. R.V. Burgin (Sledge's mortar section leader), and Sid Phillips (Sledge's pal from Mobile) both have new books recently published.

 

The real story of the fighting men of WW2 comes from them, and I say thank you to them for their service first, and for telling their often very painful stories. They lived the nightmares of savage combat and we are all forever in their debt.

 

Excellent response! I could not agree more!....Kat

[Linedoggie]

As to all the swearing, I cant answer for everyone, but in my time we used the F word like a Comma. I once heard an agitated XO on the Sincgars in Baghdad after a platoon ran through a spike strip getting all vehicles flat tires and it would have made Lenny Bruce blush. My Father (Army- North Africa to Germany) told me they swore all the time. My Neighbor Bill who was on the Canal (in Red Mike Edsons outfit)said the same. This isnt Judi Dench in Jane Eyre, it's Gyrenes in combat.

[Ricardo]

Hi,

 

In Brazil the first chapter was in the last sunday. I very liked what I saw! :thumbsup:

 

Best regards,

 

Ricardo.

[giconceptsjw]

There are a lot of valid opinions and comments here, both pro and con about this series.

 

Halfway through the series, here’s my 2 cents;

 

No lengthy nitpick session about authenticity details. However, there is a big difference between “doing the best you can with what’s available” and “not knowing what you’re doing at all”. There is no excuse for some of the mistakes they’ve made. The production company had a budget big enough to do anything they wanted. Getting enough correct 03 Springfield rifles for the Guadalcanal shots would have been simple for them. They could have also used P17 Enfields as well. They didn’t do it right because of ignorance, not lack of availability or budget.

 

Of course people will forever compare “The Pacific” to “Band of Brothers”. They’ve set the bar very high so B.O.B. is a hard act to follow for sure. To be fair, the comparison is apples to oranges so both should be viewed objectively and as separate endeavors. Still, we really don’t have much else to compare it to. Also, with regards to accuracy, story line, character development and entertainment, “Band of Brothers” stands out well above “The Pacific” (thus far) in my opinion.

 

I think Hanks/Spielberg may have bitten off a little more than they could chew. B.O.B. was based on one book, of the same title. “The Pacific” is based on at least two books, “Helmet For My Pillow” and “The Old Breed” by two separate authors. They have tried to combine two story lines & two separate sets of characters into one. As we’ve seen, it gets a little disjointed and confusing at times.

 

B.O.B. was about E company, 506 PIR from beginning to end. Now we are jumping back & forth between the 1st Marines and the 7th and groups of characters who never even knew each other during the war.

 

The timeline and chronology of B.O.B. was easy to follow and it made sense. It began with training in the US and ended with the occupation of Germany. We didn’t see that that this time.

 

The title of “The Pacific” is a bit ambitious as well. We started out on Guadalcanal and the Solomons and now we’re on Pelileu. That follows the 1st Marine Division okay but it completely omits Tarawa, Saipan, Tinian, Guam, Roi-Namur & Kwajalein. Not to mention the British & Commonwealth campaigns at Singapore, Burma and the Far East are not represented in any way at all. Wouldn’t a title like “The Old Breed” make more sense? I’m not sure what they were going for with an all encompassing title like “The Pacific” when their story is only about a very small part of the Pacific Theater.

 

I wish they would have given us more characters we could identify with and get to know. Off the top of my head I can name Winters, Nixon, Randalman, Malarkey, Lipton, Garneer, Web, Cobb, “Babe” Hefron, “Popeye”, etc., etc. from B.O.B. We’re half way through this series and so far the only memorable characters are Leckie, Basilone & Sledge.

 

As long as I’m wishing, it would have been great if they had shown Basilone in the Philippines before the war or some of the guys in basic training at MCRD San Diego or Parris Island. It would have provided a much better introduction to the characters. Yes, it is only a 10 part series but so was BOB and they managed to introduce us to a lot more memorable characters.

 

One more thing I miss are the veteran interviews. The intros into BOB were great with the comments given by the actual veterans themselves. Granted, it is 10 years later now and not many of the vets are still around. However, I do wish they would show more of the veteran’s comments than they have. It was a big part of B.O.B. but it’s a very minor part in The Pacific which is disappointing for me.

 

Despite all of the previous, I do look forward to Sunday nights, I enjoy watching the show and the combat scenes are truly edge-of-your-seat action. I’ll buy the DVD set when it comes out and perhaps #6 through #10 will prove to be more memorable.

 

JW

[giconceptsjw]

As for swearing,

 

I personally don’t think the language in this show is entirely accurate to the time period. Out of curiosity I asked my dad. He was drafted into the navy in 1944 and was sent overseas to the Marshall Islands, Majuro and Kwajalein. He was also on 3 aircraft carriers during the Korean War. He’s 85 now but still has a very sharp memory, especially for lots of little details.

 

So I recently asked him about swearing, curse words and how people talked back then while he was in the Navy. What he said was actually a little surprising but it makes a lot of sense.

 

I’ll keep this G-rated and as politically correct as possible but I think we all know the words we’re talking about without me spelling them out. My dad was a sailor, an enlisted man and not a prude by any means. If you’ve seen Clint Eastwood in the movie Gran Torino, that’s my dad.

 

You have to put things into perspective. Society was quite a bit different 70 years ago and there were a few unwritten rules. Men didn’t swear in front of women or kids. That was a big no-no. Music, movies, radio, books, magazines & newspapers were not allowed to speak or print swear words. The movie Gone with the Wind (released 1939) created an uproar and was banned by church groups because Clark Gable said “I don’t give a damn”.

 

My dad didn’t hear any woman ever use the F word until the late 1950’s. He didn’t ever hear the F word spoken in a movie or see it written in print until the 1970’s. I’d say his experiences & outlook on life was pretty typical for most people at the time.

 

Men did swear in the 1940’s, especially military men but the most common swearing didn’t include the F word. As he recalls, swearing back then meant using words like SOB, G-damn, SH&t, P#ss, BAST#$D. In other words, a military man would likely say, “Where’s your G-damn helmet?” in WWII but the same question would be asked, “Where’s your F-ing helmet?” today.

 

The F-word was used differently back then. It was the worst word you could say and telling someone “F-you” or “F-off” meant you were going to fight or get a sock in the jaw. The military was racially segregated in WWII so the white guys didn’t really hear the slang and swear words the black guys were using & visa versa. As an example, my dad never heard the word “mother-F-er” until long after WWII. He also said the F-word was used mostly with “–ing” on the end, or as an adjective. F-ing rain, F-ing mosquitoes, F-ing mud, etc. Also with “-ed” on the end like, “we’re F-ed” or “things are really F-ed up.”

 

He did agree that the F-word was not used in place of a comma to punctuate every other sentence like in “The Pacific” and definitely not like it is today. He added that most young guys at the time liked to think of themselves as well brought up and upstanding citizens from good, decent families. People took pride in things like that back then. Most guys went to church and believed in whatever their religion. Cussing and swearing was widely considered low class and the way trashy, uneducated people spoke. Because of that kind of stigma, a lot of guys just didn’t cuss or swear.

 

Anyway, that’s what he recalled about it, for what it’s worth.

 

JW

[gunbarrel]

Anyway, that’s what he recalled about it, for what it’s worth.

 

JW

 

Jeff,

 

It's great information for those of us who had not been born yet. Thank your Dad for us! :thumbsup:

[6armyAS]

As far swearing and did the men that fought in WWII use the F word… All I can say is this. The Author of "Shadows in the Jungle", Larry Alexander came to me for help writing his book on the Alamo Scouts. I gave him a lot of documents and some diaries. He sent me the manuscripts to read over. I found that he had the Scouts while on their missions swearing at each other and with a lot of bantering going on between the teammates. Larry wanted to make this book as real as he could. Well, I had to tell Larry the bad news. Operational Alamo Scouts were not permitted to use the F word or indulge in bantering. In fact in the book he had my father and one of his teammates going off on each other while traveling on a PT boat to a mission. I told him he had to take it out or we would not endorse his book. During the 6 weeks of Scout training, if it was found that a trainee used foul language, they were let go. No swearing, using the F word or bantering amongst each other were permitted. I was told this by many Scouts that I interviewed throughout the years. There was a reason for this and that might be why the Scouts never were captured or killed.

 

Think about it. Six or seven guys being dropped off on an island full of Japs. You guys are the only Americans. One guy is pissed off at the other for telling him to "F off". Yeah, that will work!

 

Just thought I'd share this.

[bobgee]

As for swearing,

 

I personally don’t think the language in this show is entirely accurate to the time period. Out of curiosity I asked my dad. He was drafted into the navy in 1944 and was sent overseas to the Marshall Islands, Majuro and Kwajalein. He was also on 3 aircraft carriers during the Korean War. He’s 85 now but still has a very sharp memory, especially for lots of little details.

 

So I recently asked him about swearing, curse words and how people talked back then while he was in the Navy. What he said was actually a little surprising but it makes a lot of sense.

 

I’ll keep this G-rated and as politically correct as possible but I think we all know the words we’re talking about without me spelling them out. My dad was a sailor, an enlisted man and not a prude by any means. If you’ve seen Clint Eastwood in the movie Gran Torino, that’s my dad.

 

You have to put things into perspective. Society was quite a bit different 70 years ago and there were a few unwritten rules. Men didn’t swear in front of women or kids. That was a big no-no. Music, movies, radio, books, magazines & newspapers were not allowed to speak or print swear words. The movie Gone with the Wind (released 1939) created an uproar and was banned by church groups because Clark Gable said “I don’t give a damn”.

 

My dad didn’t hear any woman ever use the F word until the late 1950’s. He didn’t ever hear the F word spoken in a movie or see it written in print until the 1970’s. I’d say his experiences & outlook on life was pretty typical for most people at the time.

 

Men did swear in the 1940’s, especially military men but the most common swearing didn’t include the F word. As he recalls, swearing back then meant using words like SOB, G-damn, SH&t, P#ss, BAST#$D. In other words, a military man would likely say, “Where’s your G-damn helmet?” in WWII but the same question would be asked, “Where’s your F-ing helmet?” today.

 

The F-word was used differently back then. It was the worst word you could say and telling someone “F-you” or “F-off” meant you were going to fight or get a sock in the jaw. The military was racially segregated in WWII so the white guys didn’t really hear the slang and swear words the black guys were using & visa versa. As an example, my dad never heard the word “mother-F-er” until long after WWII. He also said the F-word was used mostly with “–ing” on the end, or as an adjective. F-ing rain, F-ing mosquitoes, F-ing mud, etc. Also with “-ed” on the end like, “we’re F-ed” or “things are really F-ed up.”

 

He did agree that the F-word was not used in place of a comma to punctuate every other sentence like in “The Pacific” and definitely not like it is today. He added that most young guys at the time liked to think of themselves as well brought up and upstanding citizens from good, decent families. People took pride in things like that back then. Most guys went to church and believed in whatever their religion. Cussing and swearing was widely considered low class and the way trashy, uneducated people spoke. Because of that kind of stigma, a lot of guys just didn’t cuss or swear.

 

Anyway, that’s what he recalled about it, for what it’s worth.

 

JW

 

Re: The "F" word. Read Leckie's description of its use that is posted somewhere above. In my opinion it is absolutely correct. I entered the USMC in 1956, 11 years after the end of WWII. The "F" word as described by Leckie was used exactly that way by the Marines that I served with. I recall a Coast Guard buddy once stopped me after a short rant I was on, standing on the corner, home on leave, and asked me If I realized how many times I had used the "F" word and I , somewhat surprised, said no. He told me "16"! I was again surprised! I don't think the C.G. was as fluid in the use of it as we were. The "F" word just rolled out of mouths like water. Otherwise, I agree completely with your Dad's recollections.

 

As I recall a sentence might have sounded like this: "Any other f-king Marines who f-king wish to f-king chime in on this f-king topic? Have the f-k at it!" And you have to remember, this was way before "OooRah!"

 

Semper Fi.....Bobgee

[giconceptsjw]

I don’t doubt the F-word was used pretty liberally in all branches of the service in WWII. My dad said it was used differently than the dialog in the show. Specifically, he didn’t ever remember anyone saying “what the F-k?” or “F-that SH%T” and that they were a more modern way people use the word today. He also said it seems like the F-word is the only cuss word the guys in the show ever say and it wasn’t like that. He said a popular phrase was “G-damn hell” like “where the G-damn hell are you?” Also, everyone called everyone else an A-hole, SOB or BAS#@RD all the time but it’s just the F-word for everything on the show. I do know that General George Patton was well known for his prolific use of profanity. However, he never publically said the F-word. Interestingly, my dad said Marines frequently used their motto “Semper Fi” as a way to say F-you or F-off. He once left his seat at a crowded dance and when he returned there was a Marine sitting in his chair. He said, you’re in my seat. The Marine replied “Semper Fi mac” or in other words, F-off. He said marines used to say that a lot and it was synonymous for F-off, go away, tough SH#T, etc.

 

JW

[6armyAS]

my dad said Marines frequently used their motto “Semper Fi” as a way to say F-you or F-off.

 

JW

 

Hell, I might start using that. It will keep me out of trouble with my wife... and I could use it in church