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Niner Alpha

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Everything posted by Niner Alpha

  1. Thanks. I'll pass the information along. My friend said he tried to register at this site to ask the question himself at my urging but had some unknown to me difficulty doing so. .
  2. So it's a sweetheart pin? Something a soldier would have sent as a momento to someone back home?
  3. A friend of mine came into possession of a nearly dime size disk that he thinks may be a collar pin for a military unit pre WWII. Any guess about this disk origins?
  4. The 1st Brigade of the 9th Division in Vietnam was the "Recondo" Brigade and used the recondo emblem. Nobody went to a recondo school. When the 1st Brigade pulled out of Vietnam in the summer of 1969 the 6th of the 31st was moved to the Third Brigade and lost the emblem as they became part of the orphan Go Devil Brigade.
  5. M1 Carbines were frequently "mixmasters" when they left the ten factories that were making them in WWII. The factories all shared parts and any rifle with one arsenal stamp on the receiver would likely have a different factories stamp on other pieces. http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/ After WWII rifles got parts during refurbs from foreign contries as well.
  6. Bingo on the McDonald suspect. http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-US-WWII-CIVILIAN-DEFENSE-AIR-RAID-WARDEN-STEEL-McDONALD-CO-HELMET-/291953964360?hash=item43f9cff548 The 31st never worked within the continental US until late 20th Century. They wouldn't have ever likely to have needed a civilian Air Raid Warden helmet.
  7. What attracted me to this is that I run a website for the 6th battalion of the 31st Infantry. This helmet that recently sold on ebay is advertised as Co. K 31st Infantry with the painted markings saying so along with a mysterious. M.S.T. What's said is WWI 31st Infantry with "rare" BB7 liner. The 31st was on the Siberian expedition after the war was over but didn't fight in the actual World War. The most mysterious thing to me is the way the liner is attached to the helmet. There are welded hangers in multiple places that no other military hat of that vintage has...at least as I can find on the internet. I think it may be some kind of civilian construction helmet. Anybody ever heard of a rare "BB7" liner ? Anybody think this is "real"? I didn't even bid on it so somebody who bought it either did really good or they made a big , but not real costly, mistake. http://www.ebay.com/itm/201738901408?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  8. I was browsing ebay and noticed a Vietnam era compass for sale. The date of the compass was stated as 1971. Then I looked at his photos and there was one photo in the batch that showed a soldier with a like compass in his hand. That photo was of me and he had gotten it through some kind of Google search or he had gotten it from a post at my website. What he seemed to be suggesting was that the compass he was selling was the same one in the photo of me holding a compass. But.. the image was from an old snapshot with the margin showing the date of 1970 printed as the year of development...... just barely visible from an enlarged image. If someone looked closely it would have been obvious that compass in the photo couldn't have been a 1971 production model.. I messaged the seller ...who had pages and pages of military stuff on ebay.. and he said it was "public domain'" since it was found in an Google search and he wasn't removing it nor stating there was no connection between the photo and the compass. Ebay apparently wasn't interested. In any case, after several weeks of not selling at $68 or $69 opening bid it went away only to be relisted.....but this time without my photo.
  9. As long as the guy wasn't in the 1st Brigade of the 9th..... I'll believe the Recondo School. No argument.
  10. Unless the guy was in the 1st Brigade of the 9th Division in Vietnam. The Recondo Brigade.
  11. You are right in that this string has probably gotten my blood pressure up more than it needs to. I'm done discussing it. 63 recon go take a look at the photo I posted and tell whoever is still interested what the differences are.
  12. The point was that the "administrator" who is so certain of the validity of the original patch in question is not really all that reliable in his assertion based on only a photo image. That's the only reason the recondo patch was brought up. If you want the name of the person with the hat I could give it to you but he isn't at the heart of this argument. The point is that the validity of the provenance of the patch in actual question is unproven at best. One , to me likelyexpert opinion, given to me by veterans of an actual radio recon group, with no patches to sell, says it is bogus. Show me some proof that the real patch in question is real that it is a genuine relic of the Vietnam war first then we have something to talk about.. I know what the true story is as far as the recondo patch I put in a post is. He didn't go to any Recondo school.
  13. Nothing like a nice " friendly" well fought discussion is there?
  14. Vintageproductions.... I spelled it out for you best I can. I even gave you the evidence you were asking for. Since you obviously never were in Vietnam, let me explain it to you. A Battalion consists of Companies A, B, C, D, E, and HQ. A Brigade composes several battalions at any given time. The "Hardcore" Recondo was Hackworths adjective added to the 4/39th already given "Recondo" brigade designation. Other battalions in the 1st Brigade of the 9th had just "Recondo" as a symbol in addition to whatever their battalion Regimental motto was and Regimental crest and other traditional Regiment associated representations. Each infantry company contained roughly 100 men. If there were four battalions in the 1st Brigade at any given time that would mean that there were something like 2400 men at any given time that could have used the patch...no school required. . Each member of each 1st Brigade Battalion was entitled to wear the Recondo arrow as patch or metal badge or whatever. The Brigade Commander was the authority as it was his idea and by his design and order. If anybody went to an actual Recondo school that was fine. However, it wasn't a requirement to wearing the patch or badge within battalions of the brigade... I don't deny that there was a Recondo school. I do , at the same time, assert that the patch was worn by a lot of 9th Division troops that never went to a Recondo school as such.. What you are offering for sale is for you to say what it is. I'm just defending my position.
  15. How about this from Col. David Hackworth's book Steel My Soldiers' Hearts. Note... Hackworth was a Lt. Col at the time and only commanded one battalion of the "Recondo" Brigade. He didn't command the 6-31st or whatever other battalion was in the brigade at the time. The other battalions were using the "Recondo" thing at the same time. Page 54. Patchcollector if you PM me.... and ask nicely.... I might help you.
  16. The final exam was every day for the 6-31st. They didn't need any school teacher. And... looks like the captain in charge of the school might have got less than a passing mark judging by the purple heart. The idea was to not get wounded or killed if you could help it. I only say this because in spite of the pleas to return to topic this sniping continues. Patchcollecter your pm won't work. Says you can't receive messages.
  17. "The first with the red outlines has no comment with it. Is he inferring that this is the "real" one?" He said they were, ALL OF THEM, not "real" in that a real unit in Vietnam never possessed any of them in Vietnam. He is saying he doesn't have a "real" example...only that the third one down is more like he would imagine a "real" one to be if he had one....but it isn't real. .
  18. 63 Recon, how many guys do you think were in the 1st Brigade of the 9th Division? The Recondo Brigade. And they didn't go to any MAV V school. That doesn't mean there wasn't a school and the other divisions didn't have Recondo schools or units that used the patch in one form or the other. The thing is....If I know someone who I served with in the 9th Division in Vietnam who was in the same battalion as me before me, when it was 1st Brigade...and he has such an exact patch as is being offered for $80 by a dealer that is calling it MAV recondo, but the one I actually know about is real, why isn't my guess as to where the dealer's patch is coming from not valid? He could be right. I could be right. Is the patch worth $80 to you with the dealers word? Seems like there was a Recondo School somewhere in South America back in the 60's and 70's, wasn't there? If so... maybe the Recondo patch never was even in Vietnam. Any chance of that?
  19. I heard back from Mark...the contact through the Radio Research veterans site. The one that produced the book...etc. He also sent the photos he had mentioned in the first email. And from his examples the dark coloration is at the top and not the bottom making the design correct for what it is supposed to be. The only confusing part is the last line saying "you have identified correctly on your site". The site http://oldspooksandspies.org/patches/patches.html shows a different patch for the 335th with an entirely different design. Whatever... He said this:
  20. I only used the Bravo patch because it was easy to pull up from my photos with the side by side to make the argument that the experts on the apparent construction and material details should be able to hold forth on observation of the differences. I could see that the one that was not actual was a bad copy at best considering the design details. Instead I got the Cheap Charlie story without explanation why it was recognized as made by Cheap Charlie. Nether of us are going to change our point of view. As I said a few posts back,. you spent your money and you are happy with your purchase. You believe you made a good purchase. I'm happy for you. You are the only one who has to be satisfied. I was just pushing back against the easy certainty many express on seeing images of patches. I also question the motives of those who are in the retail trade in quickly jumping to defend their fellow dealers...and in this site as fellow moderators. At my milsurp site I wouldn't have a milsurp dealer as a moderator in the same way I wouldn't have a moderator that would promote one dealer against another. But that's not here. And that's ok by me... it's not my site in the same way your patch is not my patch.
  21. The octofoil is upside down by the way it is colored. Light color over dark is right. Dark over light is wrong.
  22. Ok... If it's all my fault and I'm disparaging reputable dealers and annoying and alienating people. I'll check fire. It's not like I paid any money for the patch. If the buyer and seller are happy who am I to ask questions about authenticity. Amen, brother.
  23. Vintageproductions, I didn't answer your Cheap Charlie story because I find fault with it and it was not germane to the main argument defining the difference between real and fake. I don't give a darn about your Cheap Charlie one way or the other other than I am not buying more than a marginal bit of your story.. The patch on the left that I posted as an example was made in 1970 for Bravo Company 6th of the 31st. I know this because a member of that company posted it on my site. That other patch was just taken off of ebay, picked at random by myself as an example, back a year or so ago to show guys at my other site from Bravo that if they wanted a royal non such that was kinda sorta right they could get it off of ebay for a few dollars. If Cheap Charlie was making them back in 69...from before the original design... or shortly after...why didn't he make the ones for the company and short change the retail market that didn't exist then, or more truely do so to represent what he was selling as being "authentic"? I think your Cheap Charlie story covers a multitude of sins in place of some objective research. As to my expertise... I don't have any patch knowledge except in a very narrow way related to my own experience. One thing I do know by looking at your retail site... and I sent you a pm saying this hours ago... was that of the few patches in the multitude you offer that I know something about I take issue with a couple of them as you advertise them. One you have listed...or had before I told you in the pm... as a MAC V Recondo patch. I strongly believe , if it is real, it is a Recondo Brigade patch. The Recondo Brigade was the first Brigade of the 9th Division. My battalion was in the Recondo brigade until mid 69 when it went to the only remaining Third brigade when the rest of the 9th pulled out of Vietnam. A friend still has his recondo patch attached to his jungle hat. If you were to offer it for what it is anybody who is a fan of that reprobate David Hackworth and his Steel My Soldiers Hearts would probably pay more for it than a MAC V patch. I'll attach the same photo I sent you in the PM
  24. Ok...so why are the merchant moderators more "expert" and "true" than the source I got by asking a related veterans group associated with the patch in the original post? A source who's only interest is in his published experience and with no stake in the selling for profit. Why are "moderators" who have a stake in the patch sales game unbiased in supporting some other fellow seller moderator's statement of provenance in a board that brings them customers? Why is it that the source of the particular patch offering as his proof of provenance only the claim that he has been in business a long time and is known to be "honest"? My basic question, forgetting all the who is an expert stuff, is where is the proof? Where is even a photo from the time showing somebody wearing the patch? Where is someone who was there who recognizes it and has one to compare it to? If there is no proof, my reason for thinking it is bogus is at least as good as your opinion derived from whatever you want to call it.
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