Hello, again
One more that I had a chance to photograph this weekend. A very lucky swapmeet find a few years ago mounted in a ratty frame. Have his O/S cap and dress tunic as well. Enjoy.
M.

some close ups.

some more c/u's

c/u

Very, very Nice!
Thanks for showing it to us.
WOW!
BKW

Great stuff! Always great to see a Canadian Forceman's stuff. Was there a "Canada" disk as well?

Jon

Hi, Jon
A good question. No, there wasn't a CANADA disc in the frame, which I was wondering about myself. I was also curious as to him having a set of Canadian dog tags as well as an American style set of dog tags with a Canadian address? I've not seen many FSSF groupings personally, and I know there were many loose reg.s during their formation, but as to any help with what he wore and what he was issued, I've only this one original photo that was in the frame. He's not even wearing the FSSF jump oval, which to my understanding, was not uncommon. Anyway, hope this helps answer your question.
Thanks,
Matt

AN amazing group!!! Too bad the British didn't name their WWII campaign medals (with the exception of Australia and SA, of course).....

-Ski

Hey,

So Matt...was he a US soldier !?! If so, its interesting that he has or qualified for British campaign medals...or...is he a Canadian soldier and is a wearing a U.S. Army uniform with U.S. cheverons since he was a member of the FSSF !?!

Regarding the medals, some British soldiers did have their WWII campaign medals privately engraved in a manner similar to the WWI medals. I seem to recall that there were two main establishments that would provide engraving on the back of the campaign stars and on the rim of the Defence and War medal. I have a grouping to a tanker who drove a flail tank onto the D-Day beaches on June 6th. I also have a grouping to a Polish soldier who served with the Polish exile forces that were a part of the British army that had his engraved in the same manner.

Thanks for showing !!

Vic

Morning, Vic
They are actually Canadian issued medals, not English. You'll notice the Maple leaf bar across his CVSM (Canadian Volunteer Service Medal) and all Commonwealth countries were issued the same UK campaign medals. Since his American dogtags list his address as Canada as well, my best guess is that he was a Canadian in a US uniform. You'll find John Cooper listed on the FSSF roster as part of the service company in the FSSF book printed right after the war (if I recall, 1948 was it's first printing). Why he wore the US disc instead of a CANADA disc on his uniform, I don't know. All this was mounted in a frame, so discovering his service history should prove interesting. I think that the Canadian government is pretty good about keeping records. I just need to find the time to write them. Hope this clears things up a bit.
Cheers!
Matt

Great stuff Matt!

From what I've heard from the Force vets I've talked to, there was a LOT of trading of US and Canadian stuff. He may have simply traded his Canada Disk for a buddy's US one. US-style dog tags along with Canadian ones are not surprising. They all trained together and shipped overseas together. The Canadians were already in the Canadian military when they were shipped down to the US for training, so logically they would have their commonwealth tags with them. FSSF Canadians were issued US uniforms and insignia, so they would have been issued US dogtags as well.

What intrigued me was the 474th Infantry Regiment patch in the grouping. My assumption is that he may have gotten it from an American friend at an FSSF reunion. That really is the only logical explanation for that patch being with this grouping. The 474th was comprised of FSSF soldiers who were 1) American and 2) not airborne qualified. If you go by what else is in the grouping, he was Canadian and WAS jump qualified.

Again, this is all speculation, but with the material presented, they are logical explanations as to why we're seeing these interesting tidbits in an incredible grouping.

Jon

"John H. Cooper" has a home of record listed as Weiner, Arkansas. - If the middle initial is in fact "E." as Vic mentioned above, then there is a "J.E. Cooper" (regiment assigned not listed), with a home of record of "Forest Hill, Toronto, Ontario".

That would make the decorations and insignia fall more in line with what's presently in the grouping.

More often than not, in snapshots taken around Helena where the "rope" is shown, it seems that the oval is usually present too. But there are exceptions, and who knows for sure when or where the snapshot was taken ??

Regardless, it's still a nice grouping and a pleasure to see !!

Best regards,
Paul Walker
Klamath Falls, Oregon

A quick google search shows John E. Cooper at Central Technical High School in Toronto, from 1939-1943 http://www.classmates.com/directory/public...egId=8706491698

Paul

Hey Matt,

Would it be possible to get a closeup of the shoulder cord ends and the back of the crossed arrows disk?

Thanks man!

Jon

He wouldnt have made KISKA/Aluetians campaign.Different Cooper??

RD

Another tidbit, it was not uncommon to see Forcemen wearing jump wings without the oval. I've seen and have owned several photos and roughly half of those had guys just wearing jump wings without the oval.

Jon

I think you might have the wrong Cooper? His dog tags have a tetanus date of 42-43. There were some reunion pieces also in the frame that I did not photograph, so this may explain the other items.

Thanks, Jon
I think that's the most logical explanation here. The grouping also included a glass picture frame (8.5" x 11") type plaque with a reverse silk screened red FSSF arrowhead on a blue background that I foolishly sold when I originally purchased the grouping some time ago. Maybe I'll run into it again someday. I appreciate your input on this. From what I could gather when I originally purchased the grouping, he was part of the Service Battalion.

Hi Matt. That's a fantastic grouping you have, in fact I also have a some of Jack E. Cooper's FSSF memorabilia, such as his original photo album that contains some nice early photos of him in uniform, Force patches, his WW II American and Canadian jump wings ( spares perhaps), his official First Special Service Force Association card for the year 1951 and his CANADA disc. I purchased these items over 5 years ago. I think the seller of your grouping must have given you some misleading information as Jack E. Cooper was not in the Service Company as he was a member of the 2-1 ( 2nd company 1st regiment). As for the wearing of the Force oval it was only worn for a very short period until it was removed per regulations. And some of the other members are correct when they state that the 474th Inf. Reg. (Sep) patch was probably acquired after the war at a reunion as the Canadian Forcemen never joined that unit. If you have the time I would love to see a photo of his service jacket, take care and congratulations on a very nice grouping.

And there's the rest of the story! Fantastic!

Of course, now the two of you have to fight to the death to see who gets to reunite the grouping!

Is there anyway to have larger pictures posted?
thank you,
Chris

I think we may have two separate groupings. The FSSF unit history lists 9 Coopers, of which only 4 have the first name with a J and only two are listed as initials. There is a Jack Cooper listed from Spokane, but since only one J.E. Cooper is listed and is listed as coming from Forest Hill, Toronto, Ontario (which is what is on his American style dog tags) I'm fairly certain that you may have Jack's items. J.E.'s tunic isn't very exciting. No jump oval, just the FSSF patch and rank chevrons. I removed the wings and the shoulder braid so as not to patina the uniform or the items. I'll be going through some of my things beginning of the year to pull some stuff out to sell at the SOS show in 2010, so when I do, I'll snap a few pics of the tunic and post 'em.
Happiest of Holidays.
Sincerely,
Matt

Hello Matt,
Regarding dog tags, it is my understanding that at least for those who joined The Force at Ft. Harrison, Canadians and Americans were all to have American style dog tags. I can only assume that the practice remained for those Canadians who may have joined the FSSF after departure from Montana.

Best regards,
Paul

Hi Matt, I'm sure we share a part of the same grouping, both during and after the war John E. Cooper used Jack as his first name. In his album I have his original Canadian Discharge Certificate which lists his serial number as B113944. Here are a few scans taken from his photo album,

"A very lucky swapmeet find a few years ago mounted in a ratty frame." (is this the same frame, photo from his album )


Framed FSSF item


Pension document


Reunion name tag

Hi Matt,

I'll be looking forward to seeing the photographs of the tunic, thanks for posting the images of the group. As I said in the PM I sent to you I would be extremely interested in purchasing your part of John E. Cooper's grouping, if you would give it some thought I would appreciate hearing from you, take care,..Gerry

What an awesome grouping and history great,would like to see the Cap and tunic too

HOLY CRAP!! That's it!! Looks as if you photographed it outside?? Were you at the swapmeet, too? I removed the items from the frame worried that the acid from the cardboard would stain the items, and then separated the old original items from the new current issue pieces. Sadly the jump oval was a current issue piece. I totally forgot about the early Paratrooper overseas cap patch. I'll have to dig it out and put it with the group again. Wow, I'm stunned. So, the next question is why you didn't buy it?? I'm fairly certain it wasn't too expensive, relatively speaking of course. Wow, I'm really stunned. Thanks for posting the pics. So, just to say I asked, how attached are you to your items belonging to Jack? Small world, huh?
Matt

Hi Matt, Both photographs are from Jack Cooper's photo album, he took some pictures of his FSSF memorabilia and I just blew them up and posted them on this site. Unfortunately I wasn't at the swap meet when these items were offered for sale, I was contacted by a seller who offered the other FSSF items to me, I asked him if he had any other items from this grouping but he informed me that he had already sold them otherwise I would have purchased them immediately. I can only assume that the grouping was some how split and your items must have been sold to the gentleman who sold them at the swap meet. I only collect FSSF items, especially named groups so this grouping is very important to my collection. I realize that you are also very fond of your portion of the Cooper grouping, but if and when you decide to part with it I would really appreciate it if you would contact me and maybe we could work something out. take care and thanks for posting the grouping, I would still love to see his four pocket tunic as soon as you get a chance to get it out of storage and photograph it. By the way hang on to the 'Special Forces' tab that was in the frame, I have the original document where he is officially awarded the tab by the Department of the Army, John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School, Fort Bragg on 27 Feb 1988. All of the US veterans of the FSSF were awarded this special honor.