Judging by the color and the use of bright brass hardware I want to call this a pre or early WW2 M1923 cartridge belt. It has typical "USMC" markings on one end but on the other, where there should be a maker mark, it's blank except for an inkstamped name. I once saw a pic of a belt owned by Craig Pickrall that was identical to this one which tends to rule out the possibility of if being an oddball belt which, for some reason, was left unmarked. Any ideas?

Pic of the right end without maker mark. Once possibility that just occurred to me is it's an early BOYT made belt. Prior to 1942 BOYT's maker mark was not that boldly inkstamped and the governmente ordered them to change it. I've seen "BOYT 41" marked webbing before on which the marking was indistinct but it was always at least partly legible.

Greg, it is hard to say for sure from the pic but I get the impression the maker name is longer than the typical Boyt 41 marking. I will check my belt pics to see what name I can find.

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These are the belts I have. The one I have that is like yours is unreadable also.

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That's not a maker name but the name of a Marine in the Naval services format of two initials and last name. Looks like "W J CARTER". It doesn't show well in the pic. If it were ever marked BOYT that marking is now totally gone.

As far as I heard there are only two manifacturers for khaki brass buckle USMC ctg belts: "BOYT" et "ATLAS Mfg. CO." Try to imagine what could be adapt to the remaining traces.
BTW it's an optical illusion but it seems to me to see a script like MARCH in place of the marine's name.

It doesn't show well in the pic but I definitely see the name "CARTER" but there might be remnants of the maker name to the left of that. But I see nothing to suggest BOYT or ATLAS used to be marked there.

Experience says there aren't two manifacturers doing exactly the same work. Try to compare insignificant details of your belt to clearly marked Boyt and Atlas belts and maybe you could find who made your.

I've seen an ATLAS belt and it had multiples lines of markings including their location NEW YORK CITY. Not likely all that would have been faded away. BOYT, especially pre 1942, had a small font marking. My best guess is it was made by BOYT in 1941 which was the first year the Marine Corps had the M1923 belt manufactured.

When did OD USMC belts appear?

If I remember well USMC in OD7 were only "BOYT" and "HARIAN". It seems the only year of production would be the 1944.

USMC cartridge and pistol belts went to light OD color shade in 1942-1943. The transistion from light to dark OD occured in 1944. But for some reason the Marine Corps still had some light OD webbing items, packs for example, produced as late as 1945 unlike the Army which had totally switched over to dark OD by 1944.

Here are some pics of a Harian belt gated '44 that went on eBay a while back, and which I stupidly did not bid on!
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And some more...
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And one last view.




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Of the three companies you have mentioned here is a listing of cartridge belts with contracts $50,000 and greater.

WD - War Department, US Army
NOM - Navy Department, USMC

Atlas Mfg. Co., New York

Belts, Cartridge WD-431 QM-08451 April 1942-Aug 1942 $108,000
(No other contracts listed)

Boyt Harness Co., Des Moines, Iowa

Belts, Cartridge WD-431 QM-04398 Jan 1941-Sept 1941 $140,000
Belts, Cartridge NOM-30777 July 1941-Oct 1941 $ 64,000
Belts, Magazine WD-431 QM-05447 Aug 1941-Dec 1941 $67,000
Belts, Magazine WD-431 QM-06225 Jan 1942-Feb 1942 $76,000
Belts, Ammunition WD-431 QM-07698 Mar 1942-Sept 1942 $129,000
Belts, Magazine WD-431 QM-05447 Aug 1941-Dec 1941 $67,000
Belts NOM-35104 April 1942-July 1942 $64,000
Belts, Cartridge WD-431 QM-08543 April 1942-Oct 1942 $167,000
Belts, Magazine WD-431 QM-07356 April 1942-June 1942 $65,000
Belts, Magazine WD-431 QM-08675 May 1942-Nov 1942 $103,000
Belts, Cartridge NOM-36104 June 1942-Feb 1943 $234,000
Belts, Cartridge WD-431 QM-11359 Nov 1942-Feb 1943 $74,000
Belts, Cartridge NOM-38445 Nov 1942-Mar 1943 $571,000
More…

Harian Stitching Co., Haverhill, Mass.

Belts, Cartridge WD-431 QM-14105 April 1944-Sept 1943 $64,000
Cartridge Belts WD-12036 QM-01199 Nov 1943-April 1944 $66,000
Cartridge Belts Cal30 WD-12036 QM-45730 June 1944-Nov 1944 $225,000
Cartridge Belts M1923 WD-12036 QM-10936 Dec 1944-Sept 1945 $460,000

Sir:

Does your source for the information on these contracts indicate the price PER BELT on any of the NOM contracts?

Thanks for providing such useful data.

Bagman

The USMC had the OD7 shade made in both 1944 and 45 plus again for Korea.

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No per item cost or quantity contracted. These contract listings give the information cited previously.

I have compared the contract information in this listing with the information provided in weekly status reports of equipment contracted by U.S. Army Jeffersonville Quartermaster Depot that only covered 1941 through about mid-1942. The reports list the quantity contracted, often the price each and the total paid at contract completion.

Of this small comparison I have learned that the amount paid in the $50,000 or more listings has been rounded to the nearest thousand. All additional items manufactured with materials provided by JQMD were paid by purchase order, usually at a different price each than the original contract. The cost of each item manufactured on different contracts, using the same specification, varied considerably.

The cost in the contract sometimes had a progressive price for each item. For example of the quantity contracted the first third might be fixed at one price and specified subsequent quantities at different costs. This was usually higher to lower. The first group had a higher price per piece than subsequent quantities manufactured on the same contract. I'm not sure why they did this but it may have been the way start-up costs were provided.

So the actual price each is difficult to determine from contract information even though price each is listed. When factored in with other contracts the most practical way to determine price each is to average the total costs against the total quantity manufactured.

The price each in the contracts varied considerably and the contract sometimes provided funding for start-up costs like machinery, tools and dies. These additional funds were provided to companies that had the capability and previous experience with manufacture of the item type. For example Singer Sewing Machine and Smith-Corona Typewriter had the machinery and knowledge to manufacture precision metal parts but no experience manufacturing firearms. Both these companies were provided funds to acquire the machinery to manufacture the M1903A3 rifles. If these start-up costs are factored in the cost of each rifle there would be considerable difference for the cost of each rifle manufactured by Remington, Singer and Smith-Corona. The start-up costs would not be reflected in subsequent contracts.

In some cases one manufacturer was identified and a contract negotiated rather than by competitive bid. The USMC was better able to do this because of the requirement of specialized equipment purchased in relatively small quantities.

An example of this is the Army quest to provide a stainless steel vacuum canteen to ski and mountain troops. The Army wanted to acquire a small quantity of trial canteens to test during the winter 1941-42. Landers, Frary and Clark was determined the only company that had experience manufacturing a stainless steel vacuum bottle. L.F.&C. reported the cost for tooling was $65,000 and they could not deliver the canteens in time for trials the winter of 1941-42. In this case the contract was not negotiated but it is obvious that L.F.&C. would have been given the contract and would have the advantage in any subsequent competitive bids on contracts.

The USMC acquired some items by transfer of funds to the Army. In this event the QMC had to determine a cost each and shipping. It is probable that the cost of the item was determined by average of the cost each of all the contracts for an item. It is probable that in this same way the price of an item to be charged a soldier, that lost or destroyed an item through negligence, was determined.

I have no additional information on WWII contracts other than U.S. Army.

I have observed that in more recent times the price of an item in the Army clothing sales stores has no direct relation to the contracted price for the item. It is sometimes higher and sometimes lower. I surmise that the cost each is determined by factors other than the actual contract price each.

The OD USMC belt I have is marked "USMC" like the last two in Craig's last pic. I will have to dig it out and see if there are any other markings. It still has the stripper clip straps. I guess it is 50's production then. I will try to post pics soon.

Here is my OD USMC cartridge belt. I cant find a date or makers mark.

I can't get it to attach, so here is a link to a pic of it.
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p186/ww2_1943/Usmc2.jpg

The "slim" USMC markings date it to the 1950s.

Isn't there a table within copies of the "Officers Guide" that cites the cost of a replacement cartridge belt?