A number of posts have asked about a book currently being offered on eBay as
"The Ultimate Vietnam Patch Collectors Price Guide NEW!!"
A current listing for this item is Item number: 280310707216 with the link
http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Ultimate-Vietnam-P...%3A1%7C294%3A50
As promised, I ordered a copy to see what it is all about.
If you were ordering it because you would like a printed copy of recent prices paid for top quality Vietnam era patches on eBay, then that is exactly what you are getting.
If you were ordering it because you thought it would be a printed, color reference book on Vietnam era patches.... well, it doesn't quite get there on that measure.
As others have noted, this appears to be patches sold from the "last great collection" out of Missoula, MT. These have been promoted and sold by eBay Sellers rfc* and his partner wings-patches. And there has been some great stuff coming out of these auctions. What I had personally hoped was that they had taken the scans from their auctions and included them in the book. That would be a start to filling a very big gap for Vietnam collectors. Other than a few scattered references on Special Forces and USAF units, there are very few color resources on US Army patches from the Vietnam War.
Full Version: 2008 Price Guide Vietnam Patches
So what did they include in this volume?
Well, true to its name, the bulk of it is a print off of realized auction prices. I believe this is a function availble to owners of eBay stores. It is simply a matter of printing them off and cleaning them up a bit.
All that is fine, but the images are basically thumbnails, barely an inch tall and at minimum resolution.
To be fair, there are 357 such images. Some of them are clearly reconizable, while others (especially the tabs and scrolls) are barely readable. This reminds me of the old ASMIC guides which were sufficient for identifying the patch, but not real helpful as far as authenticating Asian made items. The pictures are simply not big enough to provide the details needed by Vietnam era collectors.
The other problem is while the ASMIC guides and other older referernces were small, they at least were in some order. These are are in the order they sold at the auction, which meant that they are mixed up as far as branch and service. So on the sme page you have US Army patches in the middle of USMC Force Recon patches. Anyone hoping to use this as an identification guide will have to page through the whole thing to find what they are looking for.
As far as the utility of a price guide, I have written about this before. The prices here reflect what the top dollar bidder was willing to pay at one auction event. That hardly sets a market standard. In addition, one can easily see that some patches sold for well above what would be an expected value, while others sold for well below (as in $9.99). A true market guide would survey sales at shows and internet websites to come up with a more representative value.
Well, true to its name, the bulk of it is a print off of realized auction prices. I believe this is a function availble to owners of eBay stores. It is simply a matter of printing them off and cleaning them up a bit.
All that is fine, but the images are basically thumbnails, barely an inch tall and at minimum resolution.
To be fair, there are 357 such images. Some of them are clearly reconizable, while others (especially the tabs and scrolls) are barely readable. This reminds me of the old ASMIC guides which were sufficient for identifying the patch, but not real helpful as far as authenticating Asian made items. The pictures are simply not big enough to provide the details needed by Vietnam era collectors.
The other problem is while the ASMIC guides and other older referernces were small, they at least were in some order. These are are in the order they sold at the auction, which meant that they are mixed up as far as branch and service. So on the sme page you have US Army patches in the middle of USMC Force Recon patches. Anyone hoping to use this as an identification guide will have to page through the whole thing to find what they are looking for.
As far as the utility of a price guide, I have written about this before. The prices here reflect what the top dollar bidder was willing to pay at one auction event. That hardly sets a market standard. In addition, one can easily see that some patches sold for well above what would be an expected value, while others sold for well below (as in $9.99). A true market guide would survey sales at shows and internet websites to come up with a more representative value.
The lessor part of the book is 10 pages of photos that look like they were taken at the original auction.
These were a bit larger, with 106 items shown at about 1.5 inches, and 4 patches shown at 3 to 4 inches. The 1.5 inch photos give a better idea of what the Asian made patches should look at, and the 3 inch photos are fine.
However, the reader will be frustrated by the selection. For some reason, the bulk of them are Medical, Signal Corps, and Special Forces. What happened to the rest of the Army, or the Navy, Air Force or Marine items that were part of this collection. The patches are still mounted in the binders from the original collection and the photos are shot at an oblique angle with a fair amount of glare.
To add to the let down, one can see the edges of additional patches in those binders that are not featured in the full photos.
Purists will be less than happy to realize that mixed in with original period items, there appears to be some patches that are possible reproductions. And there are a number of Korean made items as well.
These were a bit larger, with 106 items shown at about 1.5 inches, and 4 patches shown at 3 to 4 inches. The 1.5 inch photos give a better idea of what the Asian made patches should look at, and the 3 inch photos are fine.
However, the reader will be frustrated by the selection. For some reason, the bulk of them are Medical, Signal Corps, and Special Forces. What happened to the rest of the Army, or the Navy, Air Force or Marine items that were part of this collection. The patches are still mounted in the binders from the original collection and the photos are shot at an oblique angle with a fair amount of glare.
To add to the let down, one can see the edges of additional patches in those binders that are not featured in the full photos.
Purists will be less than happy to realize that mixed in with original period items, there appears to be some patches that are possible reproductions. And there are a number of Korean made items as well.
Just to wrap this up, there were some quality control issues as well. The eBay ad promises 167 pages, while I counted 92 in mine. Add to that, there were a handful that were blank and one page that was duplicated.
I will leave it to individual collectors to decide if this is worth $24.95.
As stated, there are so few references on Vietnam patches I can understand the point of view that ANY information is good information.
But my view is we are still waiting for that color patch guide that we will keep on the shelf as a ready reference for Vietnam era insignia.
I will leave it to individual collectors to decide if this is worth $24.95.
As stated, there are so few references on Vietnam patches I can understand the point of view that ANY information is good information.
But my view is we are still waiting for that color patch guide that we will keep on the shelf as a ready reference for Vietnam era insignia.
Thanks for the good, honest review of the book. Definately one I personally would pass on...
Maybe if the Kellers' want a real challenge......
-Ski
Maybe if the Kellers' want a real challenge......
-Ski
Gil, what happened to the rest of the patches, was that Manion's handled them, not RFC. Also, RFC didn't handle those SF patches, it was Wings-Patches. The way they are shown is how the original collector stored them in those binders.
QUOTE(vintageproductions @ Feb 9 2009, 11:05 AM) 
Gil, what happened to the rest of the patches, was that Manion's handled them, not RFC. Also, RFC didn't handle those SF patches, it was Wings-Patches. The way they are shown is how the original collector stored them in those binders.
Missoula MT, wouldn't happen to have been the collection of Hayes Outapalik?
Chris
No, Hayes had nothing to do with this stuff. The seller RFC is an estate seller.
QUOTE(vintageproductions @ Feb 9 2009, 10:05 AM)
Gil, what happened to the rest of the patches, was that Manion's handled them, not RFC. Also, RFC didn't handle those SF patches, it was Wings-Patches. The way they are shown is how the original collector stored them in those binders.
It's interesting how this collection got spread to the four winds. One might argue it was a pretty successful effort.
What I was trying to point out was that while a 100 or so patches were illustrated with photos where you could make out some of the details, there were many more and that they were a lot more diverse than the selection that is shown.
Since posting this review, I have sent both comment and suggestions to the vendor who put this book together. They have gotten other comments from collectors as well, and they are rethinking how they can make this a better book. I suggested that if they had the scans of the individual patches used in the auction listings that would be a good start. It will be interesting to see what they come up with.
Hi Gil, 
that's a good review of this book.I guess the original idea would be really interesting,that is to make a kind of catalog of what this collection was about but of course to make it in the right way with the right sized pictures in order to be able to appreciate all the details of these patches (be they all original or not..).that would be a good source of information for the collectors.Let's hope that all the comments will make the writer and the editor to rearrange the book in a more interesting fashion,even more expensive but far more interesting.
I dream we could get for example a full color version of the Clem Kelly's VN insignia collectors' newsletter...
that's a good review of this book.I guess the original idea would be really interesting,that is to make a kind of catalog of what this collection was about but of course to make it in the right way with the right sized pictures in order to be able to appreciate all the details of these patches (be they all original or not..).that would be a good source of information for the collectors.Let's hope that all the comments will make the writer and the editor to rearrange the book in a more interesting fashion,even more expensive but far more interesting.I dream we could get for example a full color version of the Clem Kelly's VN insignia collectors' newsletter...
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