The U.S. Army developed and adopted its first rucksack during the summer of 1941. The canvas rucksack was mounted on a steel wire or rattan frame that supported the load and held it off the soldier's back. Three pockets on the outside of the bag carried extra gear. Felt pads on both the back support and the shoulder straps eased the burden. Brass snap hooks closed the two side pockets and the cover flap. The 1941 pattern rucksacks were made during late 1941 and into early 1942. Most rucksacks are stamped “1941,” although some made by Powers Company can be found stamped "1942". Being based on a typical commercial rucksack, this first army rucksack was poorly suited for military use. The National Ski Association's Winter Equipment Committee reviewed the rucksack at the War Department's request and suggested twelve improvements that the QMC then incorporated into the next generation rucksack. With the adoption of the Specification J.Q.D. 88 rucksack, the Army withdrew the 1941 pattern from service. Because the two patterns never overlapped within the supply system, they were never known as the M-1941 or M-1942 version. Its official name was always just "Rucksack."

My Rucks,
How the 88B was issued, waist strap for climbing, rifle strap for attachment and snow camo cover, the Ruck is made by AVERY 1943.

Click to view attachment

LEFT TO RIGHT,

First pattern rucksack by Powers Co 1942 with a steel wire frame [ratten was avaliable but poor] note felt pads and attached waist belt.

88B by Meese Co 1942 note the flap and other buckle arrangment, these were found to be useless when wet and then frozen as the web swells and can't be pulled through the buckles.

88B by AVERY 1943 note the different buckles [these to were prone to difficulty in opening] also note the diferent late pattern re-enforced frame this was for ease of mfg [less welding].

The frame can be attached to form a rudimentary sled.

At the end of this month I'll be collecting an OD#7 88F which I'll photo.

For further reading go to:
http://www.mountaintroops.us/

I used some of that info in the first post.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Dave, good thread, lets try to keep it going.

RobinB has one of the first pattern with rattan frame. Hopefully he will see this and post it.

Winter camo cover mfg info.

Click to view attachment

Here's my early rattan frame model. The bag is exactly the same as the steel frame type.
Click to view attachment

This set of pics covers the manufacturers of the white pack cover for the WW2 and Korean periods. These covers were made again in mass, during Vietnam, to fit the Light Weight Rucksack with Tubular Frame. I have not tried to detail those covers in this thread.

The pics did not turn out as well as I had hoped so I will list the manufacturers along with the pics.

1942

BAKER - LOCKWOOD MFG. CO.
PROTECTION PRODUCTS CO.
AVERY

Click to view attachment

MEESE, INC.
VARIED
SIMMONS COMPANY

Click to view attachment

SIEGMUND WERNER LTD.
HINSON MFG. CO.
LYON & COULSON

Click to view attachment

1943

AVERY
MEESE, INC.
LYON & COULSON

Click to view attachment

VARIED

Click to view attachment

1951

PROTECTION PRODUCTS CO.

Click to view attachment

Wishing I had bought two Mountain cook sets and another 88b rucksack with the later buckles yesterday, because I'm quite liking this now that I've got it. It's not minty fresh like Bilkos, but quite nice for 20 quid, Looks like "BERGAN & HOLLAND, INC." 1942.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

I never really looked at rucks before, so just picked out the one with the least repairs etc, as I didn't really know what to look for. Now I know what to look for, I'll keep an eye out for the other variants (and cook pots and stoves).

These M41 Mountain sleeping bags (and M49) do they always leak feathers to some degree, or only if theyre buggered?

I've seen many new sleeping bags that leak feathers just like the well used ones. I can't recall ever seeing one that didn't leak.

Here we go, OD7 88F I assume.

Had to get the OD7 as the other one was lonely.

Not mint, but not bad.

Morrow & Douglas 43. Notice these have 3 attachment (shovel etc) points on one side and none on the other.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Note that the rifle attachment hook is on the left side, this is because the rifle is "slung" on the right side of the pack allowing for even distribution of weight. That is why the attachment points are on the left side.

To finish the pack off you need, rifle strap, waist belt and white camo cover.

Very few if any 88F's saw service in WW2 other than state side as the 10th MTN received M43 and M44 packs for deployment in the MTO and the FSSF were issued M28's and Musettes for the Southern France operation. I never say never.

These packs did see service after ww2.

Biulko - I concur that the **Fs didn't see much issue in WW2 - although combat phots show 10th Mountain with '44 packs, Rucksacks, '28 packs and usually with no pack - counting on their supply train to keep them taken care of.

Great photos & good explanation of pack variations.

Today I got my 88B by Meese Co 1942 with the strange buckles!
Postage was much more expensive than the pack itself!
It has the large eyelet on the leather saddle but hasn't got the hoop on the left carrying strap.
Was that typical for the Meese rucksacks?
Unfortunately it misses the extra straps.
Were the buckles used on other equipment as well?
With best regards, Jens

ebay article 300150039874

Were these WWII rucks also used in Vietnam?

Greetz

David

Aloha Everyone,

This is my father's 88B 1943 Avery Mountain Rucksack that he used during occupation duty at Radio Marina, Asmara, Eritrea while serving with Naval Communications Unit Three (NCU-3).

He would primarily use in on hunting trips in the highlands and desert & brought it back to the US in 1953.

Reverse

Here's a detail of the zippered case on the interior of the flap - stamped AVERY 1943

The buckles have a 'circled P' on them

This is the pack with the flap open. A drawstring goes through small grommets to close it up. There are three (3) pockets on the pack which have leather straps & buckles to close them. You may also see one of the utility hangars on the left side of the pack.

This is the left side of the pack. Usually you can't see all of the hangars in the Mountain Rucksack photos I've seen. There are three (3) utility hangars on this side of the pack, two on the rear, and one closer to the shoulder strap where the soldier can reach it when wearing the rucksack.

There is also a strap sewn onto the rear pocket - it has two (2) loops, one stitched (fixed) and another adjustable by using the buckle.

The right side of the rucksack has no hangars or straps, but it does have a larger brass reinforced grommet which is part of the leather mounting.

This is the mounting with the grommet. In this photo you may also see an open hook stitched to the left shoulder strap.

It has a loop behind it, and is adjustable up and down, but the hook is open so you can't securely clip anything to it.

Does anyone know what this is used for?

There is also another metal hangar attached to the frame on the lower right side. This one has a clip which does close securely.

What is missing from this Avery rucksack is the waist belt.

The parts that you question usage for are all part of the system to secure the rifle to the pack. You are missing a web strap that is part of this system as well as the waist belt.

You might find one with a WW2 date in use but they were also made post WW2. I have a new one dated 1962 in OD7.

That's what I suspected they were for Craig. Do you or anyone else have a photo or illustration showing how the rifle/carbine is slung on this rucksack?

I'm leaving on a trip in 3 hours so I don't have time to take a pic now. If no one else posts a pic I will do it next week for you.

Thanks for the answer!

Greetz

David

Follow this link and scroll about half way down the page.

http://www.mountaintroops.us/ruck_history2.html

Gliderinf: I would guess that your early rucksack is made by Baker-Lockwood Mfg., Inc.. As far as I know they, and Meese, Inc., (both of whom are still in business, interestingly) were the only canvas contractors which utilized the 1912 brass slide-lock buckles on their early '42 rucksacks.

J.termath: The early brass buckles on your rucksack were used on early-production map case straps and small adjustment fittings, as well as the earlier wire-framed rucksacks. They are much less often seen on web gear than box or ladder buckles; consequently, packs like yours are fairly rare compared to the rucksacks constructed using standard 2-bar ladder buckles. Before that year was over, both Meese and Baker-Lockwood were fitting their packs with ladder buckles; I don't know if this was at the Army's request, or if they had just used up existing stocks of the older hardware.

heres one i just picked up this morning at a local antique shop

2

3

makers stamp and another stamp that is stamped in about 4 different spots

"M 4270"...that's the guy's last initial, followed by the last 4 digits of his property number.

I've picked up a few of those wierd wire frames through the years; I don't know who made them, or where/when they were made, but they were obviously for rucksacks.

Excellent Thread Guys! Very informative!

Dave

Hey thats the same one I have. I just got it and I am pretty stumped about it lol. This one does have the weapons strap on the grommet I hope you guys can see it. Are they rare if they have the weird wire or something?

The link is now at: http://www.mountaintroops.us. See also Assembling and Using the Rifle Strap for the strap specific instructions.
Tom

I'm posting 4 Rucks for sale at [url=http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=78038&st=0&gopid=567354&#entry567354]

The Army's records of the development and procurement of the Rucksack mentions that various modifications were implemented "to increase the efficiency of the Rucksack during the War years." Below is an obvious example of this; it must not have been very effective, because this is the only example I've seen of this. Probably an experiment on making entry into the pack simpler...

This pack is an "Avery '43"; notice that the flap buckles are threaded into short straps rather than sewn on:

Click to view attachment

A close-up:

Click to view attachment