Aircraft Carrier identity?

[Bluehawk]

Anyone here have a clue about this? (trying to help a friend)

[alarmadillo]

I wish that I could help you with the carrier's identity, but couldn't help but notice that she's steaming in reverse, and it appears that a TBF/TBM is landing on the launching deck. Very neat photo! Good luck with the ID.

[Bluehawk]

I wish that I could help you with the carrier's identity, but couldn't help but notice that she's steaming in reverse, and it appears that a TBF/TBM is landing on the launching deck. Very neat photo! Good luck with the ID.

Strange, I know.

 

What in the heck IS this?

[67Rally]

I suck at WWII carrier class IDing. What's weird about this is considering the aircraft is inbound on the bow and the deck (aft) is filled with aircraft, what is going to arrest this bird? Those cables are very much aft.

[Bagman]

Ahoy-

 

I believe the ship in the picture is one of ten so-called "short hulled" ESSEX Class carriers. Th ESSEX was the first.

 

Through the 1930's and up into WWII, U.S. Navy carriers were designed so as to be able to land aircraft with the ship steaming either direction. There was hydraulic arresting gear installed on both ends of the flight deck, although the cables were not rigged forward normally for obvious reasons.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Terry ("Bagman")

[Bluehawk]

We are advancing here gentlemen!

 

ESSEX Class, so that will give me something to look up and maybe find out which one had that type of aircraft aboard.

 

p.s.

The closest I have been to a Naval vessel is a tour aboard the Jeremiah O'Brien.

[usmcski]

Hey, 'Hawk,

 

Are you able to zoom in on the photo at all? Depending on the timeframe, you may be able to tell which flattop it is if the tails of the air wing are painted. If it's a late war photo, there should be geometric images painted on the vertical stabs....

 

GREAT photo, though, I don't think I've ever seen a carrier steaming backwards!

 

Semper,

 

Ski

[teufelhunde.ret]

A hunch - USS Intrepid

[Bluehawk]

A hunch - USS Intrepid

I shall investigate in that direction, thanks!

[Bluehawk]

Hey, 'Hawk,

 

Are you able to zoom in on the photo at all? Depending on the timeframe, you may be able to tell which flattop it is if the tails of the air wing are painted. If it's a late war photo, there should be geometric images painted on the vertical stabs....

 

GREAT photo, though, I don't think I've ever seen a carrier steaming backwards!

 

Semper,

 

Ski

Not skilled enough to do that Ski... but, good hint, I shall continue using that idea!

[Brian Dentino]

I would also guess that this is a pic of CV-11.....USS Intrepid.....I looked at the 20 year cruise book and believe that the towers on the super structure look like the same as in the photo that you posted. Couldn't find your picture exactly though.

My dad was on the Intrepid in the early 60's there Blue.....think you may know him!!!!!! ha

[Sabrejet]

I once spent several fascinating hours on board the Intrepid when I visited NYC. A fine vessel! Even better since her re-fit I'm sure!

 

Sabrejet :thumbsup:

[Jack's Son]

I too visited the Intrepid, and this picture is definitely not her.

I know...... because when I got off, I left my initials on the side.

JS

 

[Brian Dentino]

I too visited the Intrepid, and this picture is definitely not her.

I know...... because when I got off, I left my initials on the side.

JS

 

:mad: Vandalizing Gov't property is NOT cool JS! Besides, I don't think that you visited her when this picture was taken......all though rumor has it that you are "older"!

[Jack's Son]

OH!........that's cold,

b-

e-

l-

o-

w- the belt!! :evilgrin: Way below. :disgust:

 

:w00t:

[Bagman]

Ahoy-

 

To narrow the choices a bit, there were ten short-hulled ESSEX Class carriers constructed. List follows with commissioning dates:

 

CV-9 ESSEX 31 Dec 42

CV-16 LEXINGTON 17 Feb 43

CV-10 YORKTOWN 15 Apr 43

CV-17 BUNKER HILL 24 May 43

CV-11 INTREPID 16 Aug 43

CV-18 WASP 24 Nov 43

 

CV-12 HORNET 29 Nov 43

CV-13 FRANKLIN 31 Jan 44

CV-20 BENNINGTON 6 Aug 44

CV-31 BON HOMME RICHARD 26 Nov 44

 

The TBF Avenger "in the groove" for landing seems to be sporting an early version of the mid-war three color paint scheme, and the fuselage insignia seems to be only the circular cockade type without the bars. This combination makes me think the picture may have been taken in the Summer of 1943. There are numerous photos taken aboard BUNKER HILL at that time while she was working up her air group that depict aircraft painted in this manner.

 

The ship seems to be painted in what was known as Measure 21, in which all vertical surfaces were to be painted a solid Navy Blue ((5-N). That color was a relatively dark grayish blue that offered low visibility from aerial observation. My source indicates that the first six ESSEX ships were completed in this color.

 

All of the first six ships had been repainted in the camo patterns referred to as "dazzle" between January and May of 1944 except LEXINGTON which retained her original scheme til war's end, and was nicknamed "The Blue Ghost".

 

All things considered, I don't think I can support the people's choice and say the ship in the picture is INTREPID. My best guess would be that she is one of the first four commissioned. A wild, educated hunch would be BUNKER HILL---but ONLY a guess. :think:

 

Without additional photos from different perspectives, I think the definitive ID on this ship will be really hard to obtain. Whatever, the view is a wonderful one of a fighting ship and crew!

 

Regards,

 

Terry ("Bagman")

[Jack's Son]

I'm impressed Bagman, you've spent some time on this!!

Good show ! :thumbsup:

[alarmadillo]

The TBF Avenger "in the groove" for landing seems to be sporting an early version of the mid-war three color paint scheme, and the fuselage insignia seems to be only the circular cockade type without the bars. This combination makes me think the picture may have been taken in the Summer of 1943.

 

Good point; the TBF does look like the early three-color, with the blue running in a band from the wings to the greenhouse to meet the blue on the upper fuselage.

 

I'm trying to make the three (at least three) rear-most planes. They've got straight-up folding wings, and look to me more like SB2C Helldivers than Corsairs. Seems odd there appears so few of the straight-folders; perhaps early carrier trials?

[Bluehawk]

I am stunned by this

 

Is there any possibility that the ship is not American?

[Bluehawk]

My dad was on the Intrepid in the early 60's there Blue.....think you may know him!!!!!! ha

I may have seen him on the deck as we made a touch 'n go at Great Lakes from Chanute Field?

[Bagman]

Is there any possibility that the ship is not American?

 

 

In a word, NEGATIVE.

 

Bagman

[Bagman]

Good point; the TBF does look like the early three-color, with the blue running in a band from the wings to the greenhouse to meet the blue on the upper fuselage.

 

I'm trying to make the three (at least three) rear-most planes. They've got straight-up folding wings, and look to me more like SB2C Helldivers than Corsairs. Seems odd there appears so few of the straight-folders; perhaps early carrier trials?

 

 

alarmadillo--

I noticed those three non-Grumman aircraft at the far end also. They look like "Beasts" (SB2C's) to me as well. In keeping with my guess that the ship is perhaps :think: BUNKER HILL, the pictures of her Air Group working up in, if I remember, June of 43 show her VB squadron (VB-17) flying 2C's. That type had many problems and did not go with the ship when she went to the Pacific. Interestingly, VF-17 was also working up with the first carrier-based Corsairs, and THAT airplane also was deemed unsuitable as a result of the experience with them on BUNKER HILL that summer. VF-17 went on to everlasting fame as the "Jolly Rogers" based on New Georgia and Bougainville.

 

Bagman

[keithhufnagel]

I have two books listing the same picture as USS Yorktown CV-10 on her shakedown (workup) cruise. Radar suite is correct for her at that time. Before she sailed for the Pacific (July 1, 1943) she did the carrier qualification tests for the "new" SB2C Helldivers and acquired her shakedown overhaul refits. (added two starboard quarter aft 40MM mounts and moved SG radar from mainmast to pole mount near the portside 36 searchlight platform). Although many Essex class ships carried arresting gear setups both for stern landing and bow landing as well as a hanger deck catapult, they were not used and were removed on these ships at their next overhauls. Yorktown was one of the most photographs ships of WWII so I would say that it is 99% sure that the photo posted is of Yorktown on her shakedown late April through June 1943.

[Bagman]

I have two books listing the same picture as USS Yorktown CV-10 on her shakedown (workup) cruise. Radar suite is correct for her at that time. Before she sailed for the Pacific (July 1, 1943) she did the carrier qualification tests for the "new" SB2C Helldivers and acquired her shakedown overhaul refits. (added two starboard quarter aft 40MM mounts and moved SG radar from mainmast to pole mount near the portside 36 searchlight platform). Although many Essex class ships carried arresting gear setups both for stern landing and bow landing as well as a hanger deck catapult, they were not used and were removed on these ships at their next overhauls. Yorktown was one of the most photographs ships of WWII so I would say that it is 99% sure that the photo posted is of Yorktown on her shakedown late April through June 1943.

 

WE HAVE A WINNER!! At least I was almost right in my guess! Great info and thanks for setting us straight.

 

Terry

[Bluehawk]

I have two books listing the same picture as USS Yorktown CV-10 on her shakedown (workup) cruise. Radar suite is correct for her at that time. Before she sailed for the Pacific (July 1, 1943) she did the carrier qualification tests for the "new" SB2C Helldivers and acquired her shakedown overhaul refits. (added two starboard quarter aft 40MM mounts and moved SG radar from mainmast to pole mount near the portside 36 searchlight platform). Although many Essex class ships carried arresting gear setups both for stern landing and bow landing as well as a hanger deck catapult, they were not used and were removed on these ships at their next overhauls. Yorktown was one of the most photographs ships of WWII so I would say that it is 99% sure that the photo posted is of Yorktown on her shakedown late April through June 1943.

Confirmed:

 

"It is the Yorktown, steaming full astern to land a TBF Avenger over the bow, July 1943. She transited the Panama Canal on 11 July and departed Balboa, Panama, on July 12. The warship arrived in Pearl Harbor on July 24 and began a month of exercises in the Hawaiian Islands. Though provision for over-the-bow landing was a design requirement, it was rarely practiced and the bow arresting gear was soon eliminated." USN Source

 

Thanks everyone!