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M-4 flak helmet questions..

Started by AK101 , Jan 11 2010 04:56 PM

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#1 AK101

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 04:56 PM

Anyone have any pics and info on these leather covered flak helmets?

When they were used? How common are they? etc....

I cannot seem to find anything about them on this site and not much on the web.

THANKS

#2 AK101

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 09:50 PM

So I'm guessing they are pretty rare....? :think:

#3 Bugme

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 05:57 AM

There were a couple different versions of the M-4. Below is an M4A2 with canvas cover and an M4A2 with leather cover. The leather covered M4 was a late WWII project referred to as project H-28-CL. All of these have the yellow star on top but the reason for this star is unknown. these never saw wide spread use and may in reality only been used in testing. Fox Chase Knitting Mills Inc. was the company that made the leather cover for this helmet. The contract number was: W33-038-AC8141

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  • h_28_cl_jpg_for_web_normal.jpg
  • m4a2_jpg_for_web_normal.jpg

Edited by Bugme, 12 January 2010 - 07:38 AM.


#4 Bugme

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 06:33 AM

The actual M-4 was designed by AAF Colonel Malcolm Grow and used in WWII. The M-4 weighed just 2 pounds and was designed to fit on top of a leather flying helmet. The M-4 you may be speaking of was made in England using overlapping layers of Hadfield Manganese steel covered with dark leather. These were made by Wilkinson Sword Company. The U.S. version also used Hadfield Manganese but, instead of leather, the exterior was covered with an olive drab twill fabric. Below is a picture of the English version.

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  • DSCN0988.JPG


#5 AK101

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 10:34 AM

The M-4 you may be speaking of was made in England using overlapping layers of Hadfield Manganese steel covered with dark leather. These were made by Wilkinson Sword Company.


Thats the one thanks.

So the US did not use these in leather covered configuration ? I just noticed that the "english" M4 is shown in Doughboy to GI.

#6 AK101

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 10:44 AM

I found the below info online, interesting stuff.


By September 1943, this model was being tested in conjunction with the T2 model. It consisted of overlapping Hadfield steel plates which were enclosed in cloth pockets and mounted in the skullcap cover of fabric and leather. Openings were available on the lateral aspect of the helmet to permit the wearing of headphones. Notwithstanding the decreased protective coverage of this helmet, it could be worn in the restricted space of aircraft turrets where a larger one would not be acceptable. This helmet was standardized as Helmet, M4, in December 1943 (fig. 317A). It weighed 2 pounds and 1 ounce. In February 1944, it was recommended that the length of the M4 be increased to provide an adequate fit over all types of summer and winter leather flying helmets.

#7 AK101

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 10:50 AM

This one is available, I may snag it. It needs some TLC, it is covered in dust yet the leather is very supple to the touch.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i234/Biggame223/DSC02478.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i234/Biggame223/DSC02479.jpg

#8 Paul Reijnders

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 03:45 AM

Hi , here is another hard to find Anti Flak helmet. This is the M4 ( before the M4 it was the T3 - during testing it )

Regards , Paul

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  • Flakhelm_T3___M4___01.JPG


#9 Paul Reijnders

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 03:46 AM

another picture from the M4 - T3

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  • Flakhelm_T3___M4___03.JPG


#10 Paul Reijnders

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 03:47 AM

The tag inside this T3 ( IF you see these, mostly with a tag M4 )

Regards, Paul

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  • Flakhelm_T3___M4___04.JPG


#11 General Apathy

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 04:28 AM

Thats the one thanks.

So the US did not use these in leather covered configuration ? I just noticed that the "english" M4 is shown in Doughboy to GI.


Hi, the M-4 ' English made ' for U.S. forces, as were Flak vests, ETO jackets, pistol belts, field packs both M-28 and M-36 musette patterns, and much much more.

The one you are thinking of buying has a yellow painted number on it, this is probably the store's storage number. As evidenced in period photo's USAAF aircrew drew their actual heavy flying clothing from a group store before flight and returned to storage after mission, in place of being kept in barracks.

Cheers Lewis


#12 Sabrejet

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 11:22 PM

Here are a couple of archive shots from C.G. Sweeting's standard reference book on US flying equipment, 1917-45. It shows the British-made, leather covered M4 flak helmet in US service being displayed in the presence of its inventor, Brigadier General Grow, and worn in conjunction with a flak vest.

2011_0207Patches0065.JPG 2011_0207Patches0067.JPG


Sabrejet


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