Pre? WW2 enlisted collar private purchase emblem

[teufelhunde.ret]

At first glance, I thought this was a 1936 variety, upon closer look determined it is very from the pre 1936 period. The emblem is accurate in size and dimension with the 1920 series. However the eagle is taller and nearly identical in character with the widely used cap emblem as pictured on page 15; figure 64 of Orgel’s reference.

 

Unique to this emblem is the position of the stabilizing pin on the anchor ring and the continents which are very nearly identical to those of Meyer’s designs during this period. This emblem was believed to have been produced in Philadelphia.

 

BTW; this bird is seeking a mate

[GLM]

At first glance, I thought this was a 1936 variety, upon closer look determined it is from the 1922 uniform series or post droopy wing era. The emblem is accurate in size and dimension with the 1922 series. However the eagle is taller and nearly identical in character with the widely used cap emblem as pictured on page 15; figure 64 of Orgel’s reference. Unique to this emblem is the position of the stabilizing pin on the anchor ring and the continents which are very nearly identical to those of Meyer’s designs during this period.

 

BTW; this bird is seeking a mate

 

Darrell,

 

Very nice EGA! I've been looking for this extremely well made pattern for awhile now and it seems to be very elusive. I have seen a matched set of gilted sterling in this pattern in an aquaintances collection and my guess is they are what you first assumed they were...M1937, most likely of mid to late war make. The dress set came to the aquaintance from a WWII 4th MAR DIV vet who had enlisted in late 1943. Because the wings and extended long legs on the eagle, plus the anchor flukes and ring design are almost identical to the "cheapo" cast EconoLead or alloy emblems of the mid to late WWII period, my guess would be that these beautiful sterling emblems are just a much better made version of the EconoLead emblems that came to WWII Marines by way of private purchase, much like the very nice sterling marked H&H EM emblems of the M1937 pattern. I'm hoping that because more and more emblems made during WWII are surfacing these days, we'll eventually see some hallmarked examples in this pattern and be able to find out who made them.

 

Can you tell me if the globe on yours is a full half globe when viewing it sideways? The dress emblems I mentioned don't have this full half globe characteristic as do all EM devices made prior to the M1937 patterns. The somewhat flattened globe characteristic on EM emblems made from 1937 on is a dead giveaway as to dating some of these birds past a certain time period. That is a nice one you have and if you should get tired...yada yada yada...you know who to get in touch with!

Gary

[teufelhunde.ret]

I suppose my final comment regarding the period of this emblem and in many respects controversial, the absence of Cuba with the hemispheres. And the shape configuration of these 20 / 30's appearance.

 

If I ever come across another left collar emblem, will let you know. I do have some thoughts about how these ended up on a WW2 jacket, but await to hear your comments.

[teufelhunde.ret]

Aside from the physical appearance described in the other post, here is your picture of the Globe. Have also pictured the eagles position on the Artic Circle line. This would have been a sure thing from my perspective, as most older emblems have distinctive etching in this area, does not exist here. However does compare closely with the 20's cap emblem.

[teufelhunde.ret]

Hi Gary. Your premise is how I viewed this emblem for sometime and your post gave me moment for thought. However, I am going to propose again this emblem pre-dates those of the WW2 era.

 

I have not determined if silver or not, although it does have that "feel". As pictured below, several characteristics do not compare with the WW2 era. The continents are decidedly of the 20's era. The eagles head is also reministant of several eagles of the 20 & 30's period. And overall the proportions of each feature is larger that those of the 40's, especially the flukes and arm of the anchor.

[GLM]

Hi Gary. Your premise is how I viewed this emblem for sometime and your post gave me moment for thought. However, I am going to propose again this emblem pre-dates those of the WW2 era.

 

I have not determined if silver or not, although it does have that "feel". As pictured below, several characteristics do not compare with the WW2 era. The continents are decidedly of the 20's era. The eagles head is also reministant of several eagles of the 20 & 30's period. And overall the proportions of each feature is larger that those of the 40's, especially the flukes and arm of the anchor.

 

Hi Darrell: I really do like that full half globe your bird's squatting on! While I stated that I hadn't ever seen any EM emblems post dating the M1930 pattern with a full half globe, I must now eat crow. While going through my collection, I came across a couple of what I consider to be very early M1937's, of which, one is a screw back service emblem and the other a clutch back dress emblem. Forgot I had them but both have very skinny wings and anchor flukes, and both have full half globes, not the slightly flatter globes of the standard M1937's. I'll post them under the M1937 collar bird thread when I can get some decent photos of them.

 

You could certainly be correct that your emblem is of the M1920 type. By no means do I claim to be an expert on these. My guess as to a later WWII period emblem is for the reasons I stated previously, the leg and foot length, the similar anchor flukes, plus the body and wing pattern that seem to be very similar to the mid to late war EconoLead emblems. I certainly don't want to make a very strong comparison to the two types, yours and the EconoLead, but there are some very similar characteristics. Because yours appears to be made of sterling silver, a metal used extensively in private purchase EM emblems during WWII and not used much in the 1920's, 1930's period and the fact that I've seen this same pattern emblem in gilted sterling from a WWII grouping, I'm still leaning towards WWII on this one. I do know that some WWII Marines wore earlier pattern emblems because I have a 1944 period photo in a grouping showing a Marine who enlisted in '42 wearing a "gooney" on his o/s cap, so it is possible the dress emblems are much earlier. It's what makes collecting EGA's interesting, with trying to figure out when all the pre-1955 birds were worn.

 

Regardless of its period, your emblem is a real gem and all I can say is, I'm extremely jealous that it's in your collection and not mine!

 

Gary

[Brig]

gonna contribute here the same info as the other thread so it's all together...

yet another one I got in a group of 7, all from a family estate, which look like the man kept an emblem of each varient from a WWII-1960s career. I have been unable to find an emblem with a retaining pin on the anchor ring like yours, Darrel, but judging by this group and the pair Gary found from a 1943 Marine, I have to agree with him that it is probably an M-37 private purchase emblem. However, I'm yet to stumble upon a right collar emblem