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135th Aviation ? USAF? Caribou? What? Vietnam Bevo patch

Started by all-bull , Dec 02 2011 11:11 AM

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#1 all-bull

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 11:11 AM

Hello guys,
I was looking back on that F troop page, and saw where Howard Kelly put up his bevo 135th patch. I was just trying to put some C-7 USAF patches togather, and noticed that the 135th was a really low number compared to other AF units in Vietnam patches. I went to the order of battle and saw where the 135th actually had fixed wing aircraft including C-7 Caribous for one year, then the assets went to the USAF.

My question: Is this 135th patch an Army Aviation Unit? Or a USAF unit? It is not in our ASMIC Aviation catalog for VN units.

I am thinking the 135th silk woven is an Army patch, and the other two are USAF... Am I right? We only had this 135th in our Air Force books for about ten years now, so I hope we can get it straight now! Thanks so much!!

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#2 all-bull

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 11:12 AM

c-7 patches

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#3 all-bull

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 11:13 AM

order of battle

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#4 vintageproductions

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 11:47 AM

Hunter-The 135th silk woven is an army unit.

Edited by vintageproductions, 02 December 2011 - 11:47 AM.


#5 Howard Kelley

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 02:19 PM

Agree with Bob.

#6 River Patrol

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 06:44 PM

There were less than 10 caribou units in VN.....these Army aviation patches are tough to find.

#7 Bud

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 07:31 PM

There were less than 10 caribou units in VN.....these Army aviation patches are tough to find.


Interestingly also is that when the 135th was disbanded as a Caribou unit, it was reconstituted as an a Joint American-Australian assault helicopter company. Many of their pilots trained with my unit for their in-country orientation.

Here's the story on the "Experimental Military Unit" or "Emus":

The 135th Assault Helicopter Company, "Emus"

#8 River Patrol

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 04:57 AM

Interestingly also is that when the 135th was disbanded as a Caribou unit, it was reconstituted as an a Joint American-Australian assault helicopter company. Many of their pilots trained with my unit for their in-country orientation.

Here's the story on the "Experimental Military Unit" or "Emus":

The 135th Assault Helicopter Company, "Emus"



That's correct...some numbers were "re-purposed" or recycled through the evolution of Army Aviation during the span of our involvment in the Vietnam War.

Edited by River Patrol, 03 December 2011 - 04:58 AM.


#9 hawkdriver

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 05:46 AM

Interesting enough, I am currently in G Co. 2-135th Aviation Brigade

#10 Steverino

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 09:22 AM

There were less than 10 caribou units in VN.....these Army aviation patches are tough to find.

At some point the Army and the USAF had a big Pxxxxxx Contest about who should be flying larger fixed wing aircraft. The USAF eventually won that contest and the Army C-7 units becamse USAF Troop Carrier Squadrons with the stroke of a pen. Indeed, the Army Caribou unit patches are hard to find, but not as hard to find as the subsequent corresponding USAF TCS patches. I would have to dig up the exact info and dates of transfer (1967 or 68), but I recall that the USAF squadrons were in the 500 series.

Patch Johnson

#11 River Patrol

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 10:42 AM

Indeed, the Army Caribou unit patches are hard to find, but not as hard to find as the subsequent corresponding USAF TCS patches.
Patch Johnson



Why is that so? Can you theorize for us...

Edited by River Patrol, 03 December 2011 - 10:43 AM.


#12 J_Andrews

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 06:23 PM

While in Army service, the Caribou was designated the CV-2 (second STOL cargo); in 1967, when it "joined" the USAF, it was redesignated the C-7.

The Army-Air Force trade-off was engendered by the AH-1 Cobra. The USAF threatened to invoke its "rights" to it, as Close Air Support aircraft. It pretty much lost that argument but got the Caribous as a "sop" or consolation prize. As a result, they "ran the program into the ground" leveraging their rules on crew rest, manning, preventive maintenance, etc. to cripple its effectiveness (in SEA) and build up to declaring the airframes not servicable (in USAF terms), then flush them to foreign operators and the ANG.

The Army was in line to buy the improved, follow-on the C-8 Buffalo, but that went down the tube. A relative few were bought by small foreign AFs....perhaps those originally contracted/planned for the Army.

The reprise of this old story is what's going on with the C-27J program (the "baby Herk"), which was to be a joint Army-AF type, with the army replacing its aviation logistics-support C-23 Sherpas and Golden Knights Fokkers, as well as forming some SpecOps spt dets. Then the SecDef decided in 2009 to cut the order in half AND give them all to the (unwilling) USAF, which in turn passed them to the ANG (Ohio and RI). A week or so back, USAF said they want to cancel the program -- no more to be made (30 or so exist now).


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