NEED ID FOR S.F ERDL JACKET

[beogam]

SUITE

[Copran]

Hello,

 

I wonder if we have a customized shirt with the green camo in the front and the brown camo on the back to make better camo when laid on the ground, I remember read that in a topic in this forum but forget which one.

[NobleLoyalGSD]

Ahhhh.....!....!

 

Nice detail photos. I was 95% sure of the authenticity after I saw the response from vintageproductions. I hope it didn't discourage anyone from participating in the future. I absolutely enjoy reading constructive discourse and different ways of looking at the same thing. It helps me "think outside the box".

 

Thanks to all!

 

JB

[Andrei]

No sweat Jerome, this jacket is 100% genuine !

Bravo ! On en etait sur depuis le debut.

 

Andrei

[guillaume le ouf]

bonne fete jerome!

 

pas mal ta veste!

 

à++

[River Patrol]

That is one wild jacket!!

 

I can see that the jump wings, rank, and BOS are hand embroidered.

Are the name tape, army tape, airborne arc and SF shield machine embroidered? That's what it looks like to me. They look new and unused, yet the reverse of the SF patches suggest they have been there for awhile. Very weird.

 

The stitching is still a mystery.....and I wouldn't think this was done in Vietnam but probably in Thailand or at least Outside of Vietnam, somewhere. It all comes down to stitching and what you are comfortable with. This stitch pattern is reminiscent of the Pittsenbarger? patches and many jackets that I've seen put together, which is why I argued the point.

[River Patrol]

does that make mine fake because it has a odd stitch job?

 

 

No, becasue you got it from the veteran or a source you trust, who got it from the veteran. As I stated, if it would have come from the veteran (with an explaination), then no problem. However, the owner never stated from where it was obtained.

 

 

This reminds me of back in the early 90's, there was a group of Special Forces patch collectors in Texas, that said if you sent them your patches they could tell you the exact shop they were made. This was a case of collectors just being full of themselves. Unless you were the soldier that had the patches made, or where you had your insignia sewn to your uniform, it is very difficult to claim to know where each shop was that did these type of services.

 

I would never make those types of claims. It sounds like you have an issue with THOSE people and I would not mix that issue here in this discussion. If open discussion on a public forum can not handle differing viewpoint...then what's the point.

 

I still don't like the jacket! But that is my opinion. It reminds me of the many 'put together' jackets I've seen.

 

I'm glad the new owner likes it...and that's all that matters!

[gwb123]

Just got back to me shop and shot these photos. Here is a Special Forces rip-stop ERDL camo shirt for a soldier attached to the 46th Company in Thailand. He was then attached to JCRC ( Joint Casualities Resolution Committee). When these guys were sent out they were told to remove their US insignia and have orange panels sewn to the uniforms for visibility purposes ( these panels are signal panels as when one stitch is lifted you can see the pink on the other side). This stitch is identical to the uniform posted in the stitching. I know where my uniform came from and I have absolutely no doubts about it being authetic. So by going by some of the above postings, does that make mine fake because it has a odd stitch job? Like I stated in my earlier posting there were literally 1000's of Mom & Pop tailor shops in Vietnam / South East Asia, and to think or make statements that everyone of them used a specific stitch pattern is ridiculous.

This reminds me of back in the early 90's, there was a group of Special Forces patch collectors in Texas, that said if you sent them your patches they could tell you the exact shop they were made. This was a case of collectors just being full of themselves. Unless you were the soldier that had the patches made, or where you had your insignia sewn to your uniform, it is very difficult to claim to know where each shop was that did these type of services.

 

Okay, this has to rate as one of the 10 oddest things I have seen from the Vietnam period. A very logical, but still bizarre to look at.

 

I have photos of an Italian OD Airborne Jacket that was worn by a soldier assigned to 46th Group. This was very late in the period. The troops were still stationed in Thailand, but the Thai government was pressuring the US to reduce their visibility. When my friend and his group were given the news, they were told to lose their US uniforms. Incredulous, they asked "What the heck are we supposed to wear?" Their officers said "Anything but a US uniform." They visited the local flea market and came back with complete sets of Italian OD Airborne Jackets and trousers. They all dutifully had their US insignia, rank and qualification badges sewn on them. When their CO saw them, he flipped. He OK'd the uniforms, but told them to strip all the US patches off of them. My friend asked "Only the US stuff?" and he was told anything else was fine.

 

I had this in my collection for awhile, a gift from my friend. When he passed away, I returned it to his family. Underneath the foreign qualification insignia, you can see where the US insignia had been sewn on.

 

Both of these uniforms are proof that just when you think you have seen everything from this time period, something else comes along.

[Andrei]

Waow !!!! Are the French parawings thai made ? I would have love to have this jacket in my collection.

This not an airborne jacket but the general issue combat jacket of the Italian Army of the period.

 

Andrei

[vintageproductions]

"Plus, Vietnam war SF guys rarely wore ripstop and rarely ERDL/ripstop. As far as I know they hated the rip-stop (unless they were desk jockeys and nothing else was available)."

 

 

 

What my "beef" is, is that the above statement was even made. How can a statement be made like this, when there is more then enough photographic proof to prove otherwise? Where does your proof of this come from? Steve, you and I are both too young to have been in Vietnam, so how are we to know what was done and what wasn't, or to say that certain things were set in stone as to the sewing or wearing of items? The reason I started collecting Vietnam items back in the 70's, was because there were no set rules as to how things were done, how things were worn, etc. At the time( not anymore) I felt WWII collecting was too boring as everything was cut and dry, but Vietnam items opened up a whole new venue of a soldiers personal preference on how his uniform , his headgear, etc was worn to his taste.

 

I do agree that a open forum for discussion is fantastic, as it lets everyone voice their opinions. But, at the same time, people should realize that what they write should be held accountable when someone ask for proof of these statements.

 

As stated previously this has been a great subject and it just proves that everyone has a opinion but everyone shouldn't just jump to conclusions, because something like the above item has not been seen before. The one sad affair with collecting today, is everyone wants to say something is fake instantly, before the facts are shown. This is a sad state of affairs as fakery is so abundant in our hobby.

Bob Chatt

Vintage Productions

[nguoi tien su]

Unbelievable... but so sexy !!! Thanks for sharing !!!

 

NTS

[Nkomo]

"Plus, Vietnam war SF guys rarely wore ripstop and rarely ERDL/ripstop. As far as I know they hated the rip-stop (unless they were desk jockeys and nothing else was available)."

What my "beef" is, is that the above statement was even made. How can a statement be made like this, when there is more then enough photographic proof to prove otherwise? Where does your proof of this come from? Steve, you and I are both too young to have been in Vietnam, so how are we to know what was done and what wasn't, or to say that certain things were set in stone as to the sewing or wearing of items? The reason I started collecting Vietnam items back in the 70's, was because there were no set rules as to how things were done, how things were worn, etc. At the time( not anymore) I felt WWII collecting was too boring as everything was cut and dry, but Vietnam items opened up a whole new venue of a soldiers personal preference on how his uniform , his headgear, etc was worn to his taste.

 

I do agree that a open forum for discussion is fantastic, as it lets everyone voice their opinions. But, at the same time, people should realize that what they write should be held accountable when someone ask for proof of these statements.

 

As stated previously this has been a great subject and it just proves that everyone has a opinion but everyone shouldn't just jump to conclusions, because something like the above item has not been seen before. The one sad affair with collecting today, is everyone wants to say something is fake instantly, before the facts are shown. This is a sad state of affairs as fakery is so abundant in our hobby.

Bob Chatt

Vintage Productions

Bob,

Interesting. I had also heard that SF guys didn't use the ERDL pattern fatigues much either. I guess there are a lot of untruths floating around out there. You learn something new every day!

Arch

[nguoi tien su]

As GWB123 said, it is not unusual to have different shades on the insignias. Especially for elite troops.

I think this one is a very neat example :

 

 

Lee Burkins 1969/1970 RT Vermont.

 

And I won't argue the authenticity of his shirt !

 

NTS

[63 RECON]

I came across this thread looking for something else so i know I'm reviving an old one here. Great Erdl JJ, I've got a couple of JJs with the same cross stitching on them, i love it i think it looks like somthing you woudl see in ww2 (very wardaddys tanker jacket)

 

the fist one also has the rank and nametape sewn on the same way, the second one has the SSI done the same

[63 RECON]

SSI of second JJ

[American Graffiti]

The collar looks to have definitely been reversed.

In the close up pics you can see different coloured stitching, this would explain a lot.

AG

[Andrei]

The collar has been reversed for some reasons. This jacket is now mine and I had the collar redone right.

[firefighter]

I found a ;

DIGIACINTO, RALPH H 2ND LT attached to C-2

He was awarded his VNJW(Vietnamese Jump Wings) on 11-7-68

 

Not sure if this is the same person as there are no VNJW's on your jacket.

 

The above info is from CIB/CMB & VNJW AWARDS TO SF'S IN VIETNAM by Stephen Sherman

[Andrei]

I can't remember but I did find a 1LT with the same name but assigned to a LRRP/Ranger co. I never really researched thoroughly this officer.

[kammo-man]

Jeromes shirt has obvious Thai sewing just like the JCRC jacket its really nice ..........

With SF jungle jackets the norm is ....there is NO norm.

 

 

owen

[Beau-Brummel]

Craig Davis' jungle jacket has the same 'Thai' zig zag sewing of the Insignia.

 

http:/184.172.36.50/forums/showthread.php?t=429414&highlight=CRAIG+DAVIS

 

Regards, Guy.

[63 RECON]

Great JJ Guy, really nice. should post some pics of your stuff

 

Another nice example is on the "Pyner" JJ, it also has Thai done direct embroidery

[kammo-man]

The collar may have been reversed simply to get more millage out of the jacket.