Vietnamese-made Dashiki Shirts for US Troops

[DiGilio]

Not too military related but heres an African Dashiki made in Saigon, Vietnam. Most likely a custom order from a black GI, although they were also worn by some hippie types. Late in the war when many blacks became very anti-military and rebellious, many would wear and show black culture items more.

 

Theres some nice embroidery on the shirt.

 

[aips]

i missed this on ebay

nice piece

[thefallenbuddha]

Not too military related but heres an African Dashiki made in Saigon, Vietnam. Most likely a custom order from a black GI, although they were also worn by some hippie types. Late in the war when many blacks became very anti-military and rebellious, many would wear and show black culture items more.

 

Theres some nice embroidery on the shirt.

 

I wouldn't say it was supposed to be a dashiki unless there was some other background information to this particular shirt. The pattern is the same as one of the variations of clothing worn by the different hill tribes in Vietnam, which Saigon tailors made and sold as souvenirs to foreigners (in larger Western sizes) as much in the 1960s as they do today. These can come as both pull-overs or open front. The base color being black, and the embroidery only around the collar, cuffs, and hem is the standard Vietnam tribal design for this variation of garment, whereas dashikis come in a variety of different colors/embroidery layouts.

 

[DiGilio]

The Vietnamese shirts are very similar but the neck area just looks very dashiki to me. I could deffinetly be wrong but I dont remember seeing any of the Vietnamese shirts with that style. Usually just a strip of embroidered fabric along the neck (like in picture). And I really would not of expected a Saigon high end tailor shop to be putting together vietnamese tribe clothing instead of either importing them from the real tribes to sell or at least leaving their tailor label out so they could try and pass it off as original. From accounts Ive heard and read, when guys were looking for those kinds of tribe souvenirs, they wanted the real thing. With the neck area and saigon label I was just leaning toward dashiki.

 

I wouldn't say it was supposed to be a dashiki unless there was some other background information to this particular shirt. The pattern is the same as one of the variations of clothing worn by the different hill tribes in Vietnam, which Saigon tailors made and sold as souvenirs to foreigners (in larger Western sizes) as much in the 1960s as they do today. These can come as both pull-overs or open front. The base color being black, and the embroidery only around the collar, cuffs, and hem is the standard Vietnam tribal design for this variation of garment, whereas dashikis come in a variety of different colors/embroidery layouts.

[thefallenbuddha]

The Vietnamese shirts are very similar but the neck area just looks very dashiki to me. I could deffinetly be wrong but I dont remember seeing any of the Vietnamese shirts with that style. Usually just a strip of embroidered fabric along the neck (like in picture). And I really would not of expected a Saigon high end tailor shop to be putting together vietnamese tribe clothing instead of either importing them from the real tribes to sell or at least leaving their tailor label out so they could try and pass it off as original. From accounts Ive heard and read, when guys were looking for those kinds of tribe souvenirs, they wanted the real thing. With the neck area and saigon label I was just leaning toward dashiki.

 

The photo posted above is just a general example. These come in a variety of similar cuts, including ones exactly like the garment you posted. Again, my belief of it as a Vietnam tribal garment is based on the color and embroidery scheme, which is per the custom of such garments in Vietnam, i.e. black base with linear geometic embroidery with a focus of "red" around the collar, cuffs, and hem (variations occur between garments, with some having more, less, or no embroidery in these areas, but when embroidery is done it is virtually always within these areas, and strongly linear). The size of the embroidery also varies, but again, the basic location in the garment and black base color with a dominant linear "red" in the embroidery remains the same.

Dashikis, as you know, come in a large variety of color and embroidery schemes, but that this garment (made in Vietnam) bears the design and cut of a Vietnam tribal garment seems to suggest its manufacture was inspired by local influences rather than those from abroad.

 

Also, Saigon tailors (as with modern HCMC tailors) did make these garments to sell to tourists/foreigners. Foreigners wanted to buy them as souvenirs, real tribal wear was much too small for most Western bodies, and most foreigners in Saigon never visited the tribal regions anyway, nor were they usually in the mood for souvenir shopping if they did visit those areas.

Using the dashiki itself as an example, many local home-spun dashikis abound in west Africa, but chances are most tourists who visit these countries and purchase one end up with one made by a tailor in a city.

Additionally, although this item was a bringback by a US servicemen during the period (I assume), aside from Saigon tailors producing these as tourists items, the notion of a tribal member himself having a more finely made tailor piece over the common "homemade" garments is also valid. This is certainly something many of them do today, particularly for ceremonial garments.

Quality is also just as much an issue with a foreign buyer looking for a souvenir to bring home.

 

Again, the color layout and pattern cut are what makes it appear like a Vietnam tribal garment. The tailor label doesn't make a difference, other than confirming it was made in Vietnam.

[hochiminhtrail]

these type of shirts with the long wide sleeve is made from minority cloth, but it has never been worn by the minorities themselves, that type of shirt was made for the GIs and relate to the fashion of that time.

the Ede tribes of Ban Me Thout and the Bahnar tribes in the Kontum area wore completly different type of cloth.

 

here a picture taken near Danang, cant tell you exactly if it s a localy made shirt or not

[hochiminhtrail]

from the same grouping, hippie type of shirt.

[thefallenbuddha]

these type of shirts with the long wide sleeve is made from minority cloth, but it has never been worn by the minorities themselves, that type of shirt was made for the GIs and relate to the fashion of that time.

the Ede tribes of Ban Me Thout and the Bahnar tribes in the Kontum area wore completly different type of cloth.

 

here a picture taken near Danang, cant tell you exactly if it s a localy made shirt or not

 

Hey Alex!

Merry Christmas!

 

Great photos posted, thank you.

As shown in the photos you posted, these shirts - the dashiki fashion ones - came with a variety of color schemes and layouts.

Unlike the garment in question here, the shirts in those photos do not follow color schemes pertinent to the Vietnam tribal groups.

As you know, the cut of the tribal fashions in Vietnam varies. However, there are pull-overs which are of essentially the same cut as dashikis, i.e. loose fitting pull-overs with wide cuffs and hem. They are not the "generic" tribal garment, but do exist.

I don't have time to troll the Internet at the moment, but when I get a photo I will post it here showing this cut in wear by these groups.

While I cannot say 100% (nor can any of us) whether the garment in question was made as a Vietnam tribal garment for a GI, a dashiki type shirt for a GI, or something else, I think it is clear the color scheme and embroidery is in line with Vietnam tribal traditions.

Thus, as written above, at the very least it was a fashion garment inspired by Vietnam tribal designs. Was it a dashiki-Western trend fashion item made in Vietnam tribal colors or was it simply a tailor made garment of a local indigenous design in Vietnam? - We don't know.

For myself, I would still argue it leads more towards the latter.

And, as you mentioned (which should be said), these dashikis were worn in leisure by troops of all backgrounds, just as they were by "hippie" types worldwide, not just African-Americans.

[hochiminhtrail]

Hi Darwin merry xmas to you.

 

yes the pullover shirt exist in vietnam, but to my knowledge not the wide sleeves, wich make it very look like a hippie shirt, here a modern picture of of the Ede, the sleeves are very tight like a normal shirt.

the picture of the girl you posted showing a variety of cloth on the market, this ethnic group is from north vietnam and called the red Dao or pronouced Jao, those have wide garnement, but they are located near the chinese border, in the Lao Cai region.

To my knowledge no ethnic group wear anything similar in the south.

 

 

Hey Alex!

Merry Christmas!

 

Great photos posted, thank you.

As shown in the photos you posted, these shirts - the dashiki fashion ones - came with a variety of color schemes and layouts.

Unlike the garment in question here, the shirts in those photos do not follow color schemes pertinent to the Vietnam tribal groups.

As you know, the cut of the tribal fashions in Vietnam varies. However, there are pull-overs which are of essentially the same cut as dashikis, i.e. loose fitting pull-overs with wide cuffs and hem. They are not the "generic" tribal garment, but do exist.

I don't have time to troll the Internet at the moment, but when I get a photo I will post it here showing this cut in wear by these groups.

While I cannot say 100% (nor can any of us) whether the garment in question was made as a Vietnam tribal garment for a GI, a dashiki type shirt for a GI, or something else, I think it is clear the color scheme and embroidery is in line with Vietnam tribal traditions.

Thus, as written above, at the very least it was a fashion garment inspired by Vietnam tribal designs. Was it a dashiki-Western trend fashion item made in Vietnam tribal colors or was it simply a tailor made garment of a local indigenous design in Vietnam? - We don't know.

For myself, I would still argue it leads more towards the latter.

And, as you mentioned (which should be said), these dashikis were worn in leisure by troops of all backgrounds, just as they were by "hippie" types worldwide, not just African-Americans.

[vintageproductions]

I have a Saigon tailor made Montangnard shirt that was worn by a SOG Captain. The tribe had given him the material to go have a shirt made for each person on his team, as they couldn't make the right sizes.

[hochiminhtrail]

i think i remember the shirt you are talking about, very nice indeed Bob. :thumbsup:

 

I have a Saigon tailor made Montangnard shirt that was worn by a SOG Captain. The tribe had given him the material to go have a shirt made for each person on his team, as they couldn't make the right sizes.

[DiGilio]

Hello everyone. Thanks for the replies and Merry Christmas.

 

Can anyone find a picture of a Vietnamese tride with the dashiki style neck area? Neck that goes into V-neck with lots of embroidery around it, not just a strip or two of even-width embroidered fabric on the neck line? This is what made me assume its probably a dashiki, since I had never seen that style on any VNese shirt.

 

The sleeves on this shirt are pretty wide. When folded flat, about 9" across. They are also about 3/4 length. The shirt was deffinetly made for a westerner. Id say about for an average sized westerner, the shirt would fit, but still be loose because of the wide body of the shirt. The basic construction of the shirt is the tailor shop sewed it up with black cotton cloth and then took pre-made sheets of embroiderd cloth, cut it, and sewed it on. If it is dashiki, and a Saigon tailor shop got the order, I would sort of expect them to be pretty Vietnamese with it and use available embroidered cloth instead of doing a complete custom job.

[hochiminhtrail]

I have a picture book on the 54 different ethnic groups of North and South Vietnam,

First of all, mostly femal dresses are heavy embroidered arround their neck, but those are mostly worn by ethnic groups from the North, the southern groups have a different type of embroidery, and different cut, none of the groups have such wide sleeves and cuffs, or a V neck collar.

 

So for me this shirt was made up to the fashion of the time, and sold by vietnamese entrepreneurs to GIs and toursist.

 

my 2 cents :ermm:

 

HCMT

[thefallenbuddha]

yes the pullover shirt exist in vietnam, but to my knowledge not the wide sleeves, wich make it very look like a hippie shirt, here a modern picture of of the Ede, the sleeves are very tight like a normal shirt.

the picture of the girl you posted showing a variety of cloth on the market, this ethnic group is from north vietnam and called the red Dao or pronouced Jao, those have wide garnement, but they are located near the chinese border, in the Lao Cai region.

To my knowledge no ethnic group wear anything similar in the south.

I have a picture book on the 54 different ethnic groups of North and South Vietnam,

First of all, mostly femal dresses are heavy embroidered arround their neck, but those are mostly worn by ethnic groups from the North, the southern groups have a different type of embroidery, and different cut, none of the groups have such wide sleeves and cuffs, or a V neck collar.

 

I'm sorry, but I am going to have to disagree with some of these points.

The clothing used by the different hill tribes is both diverse and overlapping. The same type of garments and design can be seen in use by one group as well as another, in both group and individual circumstances. It is not possible to definitively identify one garment as being singularly indicative of one group's style versus another. A style may be more "popular" in one particular group, but an example of the same fashion can be found in another group.

Thus, by looking at a garment by itself (without having any background information) it is not possible to tell definitively what group it came from, though hints can be provided.

 

Also, it should be said, these garments were not massed produced in a factory to certain specifications. And, as a result of the diversity and the nature of their production, they do not all follow the same pattern 100% for male and females. Specifically regarding ceremonial clothing large varieties in embroidery and ornamentation patterns existed, with many pieces often being made individually for the specific individual/event. The pattern cuts and embroidery being varied.

This is different from something like kimonos and yukatas in Japan today. Though, of note, in centuries before, prior to Japan being relatively unified there existed a wide array of variations in kimonos and yukatas in Japan.

 

Can anyone find a picture of a Vietnamese tride with the dashiki style neck area? Neck that goes into V-neck with lots of embroidery around it, not just a strip or two of even-width embroidered fabric on the neck line? This is what made me assume its probably a dashiki, since I had never seen that style on any VNese shirt.

 

The sleeves on this shirt are pretty wide. When folded flat, about 9" across. They are also about 3/4 length. The shirt was deffinetly made for a westerner. Id say about for an average sized westerner, the shirt would fit, but still be loose because of the wide body of the shirt. The basic construction of the shirt is the tailor shop sewed it up with black cotton cloth and then took pre-made sheets of embroiderd cloth, cut it, and sewed it on. If it is dashiki, and a Saigon tailor shop got the order, I would sort of expect them to be pretty Vietnamese with it and use available embroidered cloth instead of doing a complete custom job.

 

Here is a photo of a Hmong man with a pull-over shirt with V-neck collar, loose fitting, with wide cuffs.

 

A photo of a woman with wide cuffs that are also cut short.

 

 

Custom jobs are one of the main functions of a tailor, aren't they?

We know it was tailor made, so again, Westerners did have tailor made garments of local indigenous clothing produced, just as they would have for other fashions where they needed a tailor's touch to make a garment that would fit them and also appeal to whatever their specific esthetic requests might be.

 

Again, the style of the embroidery is a central theme. And, it just really appears in line with the basic linear pattern of the Southeast Asian tribal groups.

The photos Alex posted show different color schemes.

[DiGilio]

I dont think everyone will come to agreeing but my opinion is still it was made by the tailor shop in a dashiki-style more farmiliar to westerners to sell to them. While the tribes had this V neck, I still have not seen any of their stuff with this exact cut and especially not with the style of lots of emrboidery around the neck. It appears to of been made for the westerners in Saigon and would make sense for the Vietnamese tailors to modify the style to be more appealing to the GIs and western vistitors. The Saigonese and tailors were always looking at the western tastes and fashion to copy and make money off. I dont think it was meant to have anything to do with the actual tribes. It would make no sense for any of the tribes themselves to have had this shirt made at this tailor shop. The embroidery is from sheets they made and its well within one of the tribes ability to put together this shirt minus the embroidered fabric. And if they wanted it done neatly with a sewing machine, why go to a well off Saigon tailor shop for something so simple instead of getting it done by the nearest guy who owned a sewing machine?

[thefallenbuddha]

I dont think everyone will come to agreeing but my opinion is still it was made by the tailor shop in a dashiki-style more farmiliar to westerners to sell to them. While the tribes had this V neck, I still have not seen any of their stuff with this exact cut and especially not with the style of lots of emrboidery around the neck. It appears to of been made for the westerners in Saigon and would make sense for the Vietnamese tailors to modify the style to be more appealing to the GIs and western vistitors. The Saigonese and tailors were always looking at the western tastes and fashion to copy and make money off. I dont think it was meant to have anything to do with the actual tribes. It would make no sense for any of the tribes themselves to have had this shirt made at this tailor shop. The embroidery is from sheets they made and its well within one of the tribes ability to put together this shirt minus the embroidered fabric. And if they wanted it done neatly with a sewing machine, why go to a well off Saigon tailor shop for something so simple instead of getting it done by the nearest guy who owned a sewing machine?

 

I agree that we will disagree. The basic fact is we cannot know for certain one way or another.

What we need to know is who exactly had this particular garment made and why, which is information we don't have.

Without this, we can only speculate theories from looking at the garment itself.

But, this is what makes collecting and research fun.

Either way, I still think it is a neat garment, one of which I would be happy to have in my collection.

 

But, just in reference to your last question about a Saigon tailor, the answer is simple. Saigon had the best tailors in South Vietnam. If you wanted to have a good piece made, why not go to where the best quality items are produced. Also, as discussed above, if this garment was made for a Westerner (which I think we all agree it probably was due to size, and that most made in Saigon were for foreigners) the same notion of wanting to have a quality garment applies. Other than this being a custom piece, Saigon tailors did make souvenir garments like this of high quality. Another example would be Saigon made Ao Dais, which US servicemen brought home in likewise larger Western sizes as souvenirs for American wives/girlfriends as opposed to just bringing standard local made pieces, which might not be of the best quality and unlikely to fit Western bodies.

[hochiminhtrail]

The dresses of Hmong and other nothern tribes differ greatly from what was worn 50 years ago, as much of the embroidery is made in china now, and is just sewn to the black indigo cloth they produce localy, of course not eveyr group does it, but still many, so the fashion changes even for the tribes in vietnam.

 

Yes i have seen overlaping dresses, both for male or femal but never a V neck with large cuff like the one you are showing, is this a Hmong from Vietnam or Laos ?, or an oversea Hmong in the US? as the dresses differ a lot wich each sub tribe, black hmong, flower hmong ect..

 

i also think that montagnard will never do very good job on a swewing machine, at least not like the vietnamese, escepially if you produce for tourists or GIs

 

for me this is a perdiod made shirt, the name of the street is i think not actual for saigon these days.( have no time to verify)

 

Nguyễn Văn Thinh (1888 - 10 November 1946, Saigon) was the first President of Cochinchina. Thinh was a French citizen and joined the Constitutionalist Party in 1926. He founded the Cochinchinese Democratic Party in 1937. He became chief of the provisory government on March 26, 1946, and provisional president on June 1. He felt a loss of face when the French negotiated with the Vietminh, ignoring his government. "I am being compelled to play a farce," he said. He died, an apparent suicide while still in office, on November 10.

 

i love collecting and a nice debate :thumbsup:

 

Cheers

 

 

Alex

[DiGilio]

Well I think we all can agree that this shirt was made for a westerner.

 

I think then the question is was it made as a souvenir or something like what VP mentioned, where a shirt was put together for montagnard purposes.

 

If its a souvenir, I think the next question is, is it a type of shirt that was worn by the montagnard themselves, or a modified design to sell to GIs? Theres an example of another souvenir shirt on: http://www.vhpamuseum.org/souvenirs/cultural/cultural.shtml. Although Im not too farmiliar with all the tribal clothing I think the shirt on the website is purely one made for the GI market. Ive seen others very similar to that one with that same designs, color and style and those popular montagnard style woven headbands show up with this exact pattern on it in the 70s (well made ones). In fact the strip along the V-neck might be one of the headbands. The GI who brought this shirt back seems to of got it in the 70s as well. This shirt is somewhat similar to the one in this thread but has no tags, has a different style V-neck (without the a lot of embroidery around it), and has wide sleeves but they are short sleeve. Also seems cut on the sides. A guess would be some Saigon tailor took this basic design and modified it into a more dashiki-style popular at the time. With the lack of any evidence the vnese used this cut and this style of embroidery around the neck, Id say its dashiki-inspired. Coming from Saigon I really think this was meant for the GI market. It just doesnt make too much sense to me to have something simpler than a PJ shirt brought to a expensive saigon tailor to be put together. Of course its far from impossible, but I think chances are much greater its simply for the GI shoppers.

[vintageproductions]

I will shoot photos of mine tomorrow when I get back to the shop.

[vintageproductions]

Here's mine. It has flared arms and is a ceremonial shirt not a souvenir dashiki.

[hochiminhtrail]

same tailor shop

 

 

Here's mine. It has flared arms and is a ceremonial shirt not a souvenir dashiki.

[DiGilio]

Very interesting that its from the same shop. Ive got to find a pre-75 map and see exactly where it was located.

 

Deffinety appears a higher quality shirt with the patterns embroidered directly into the shirt.

[vintageproductions]

I hate to disagree but that is not a "dashiki" for an anti-war statement, I consider that a "Yard" ceremonial piece of clothing. It was made probably, like mine, in the same tailor shop, as the Mont. weren't used to making Western sizes.

[hochiminhtrail]

well i think if it s real ceremonial shirt, it wouldnt have a saigon tailor tag, it would be made up in the highlands as worn by ethnic minorities themselves, it might be some copy in the minority style of clothing, with a 60s touch, but for the purpose of selling this to the Gis, otherwise i wouldnt understand the saigonese tailor tag, for the small size, it s probably the same problem as the tour jackets.

 

maybe we have to understand the definition of "ceremonial", for me it s purely for minorities, so the real deal as to say, cloth made by the minorities themselves worn by them at ceremonies, made up by them localy and given to US adviser on the spot.

 

Cheers

 

HCMT

[vintageproductions]

Alex-As I said in one of my earlier posts, mine is straight from the SOG vet who wore it. The tribe that gave him the cloth had made three different shirts for him and his team, but none of them would fit right. So he asked one of the head villagers for some material and had them made in Saigon for his team, so that they could have a proper fit. This is not collector / dealer hear-say, this is straight from the guy who worn it, and had them made for his team. There was no theories, it was just a matter-of-fact what they were and why they were made that way.