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Pre-WWII USMC coats & coveralls ID needed


Bob Hudson
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I posted this photo quite a while back. In looking at it today, it occurred to me someone might able to ID a time period for the distinctive coats and coveralls worn:

 

chinamarsmall.jpg

 

chinamarcoat.jpg

 

chinamarcoveralls.jpg

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I have seen your posting and this pic before. It would appear that the photo is very late 1920s judging by the hats and the car. The outer clothing is not USMC issue, but appears civilian. Sometimes if certain suitable clothing items were not available, they were obtained from outside sources.

Do you know where this pic was taken. If, for instance, it was in north China, I would not be surprised to see non regulation work clothing like this at all.

 

CB

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I have seen your posting and this pic before. It would appear that the photo is very late 1920s judging by the hats and the car. The outer clothing is not USMC issue, but appears civilian. Sometimes if certain suitable clothing items were not available, they were obtained from outside sources.

Do you know where this pic was taken. If, for instance, it was in north China, I would not be surprised to see non regulation work clothing like this at all.

 

CB

 

The coveralls are all the same: big slant breast pocket, and a couple of the guys have the same heavy coats. I lean toward China if for no other reason than that this motley looking crew might not have gotten away with such a salty appearance in Philadelphia or New York, even in the motorpool. As I - and someone else - mentioned in a previous post - Smedley Butler had a similar car in China (his was a 1926 Packard). I posted this again because I really for the first time noticed the distinctive look of the coats and coveralls and thought maybe that could help decide whether it as 1920's or 30's.

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I was wondering if perhaps we are seeing some sort of cold weather clothing -- perhaps flight clothing?

 

G

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The coveralls are all the same: big slant breast pocket, and a couple of the guys have the same heavy coats. I lean toward China if for no other reason than that this motley looking crew might not have gotten away with such a salty appearance in Philadelphia or New York, even in the motorpool.

 

I could not believe the "customizing" of the covers!

 

GB

 

PS Folks, Bob has this picture on eBay, if anyone is interested.

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General Apathy

Hi Forum Support, Just to add that the coats are definitely Marine issue, they date from before WWII and were still made early WWII. The outside material is a whipcord possibly referred to as ' Bedford Cord ', the lining is sheepskin.

 

I have had several of these in unissued condition packed in USMC WWII dated crates, in between the outer cord material and the sheepskin is a lining of waterproof poncho material, in a few of them the waterproof lining was even USMC camouflaged poncho material this was the way they were manufactured direct from the manufacturer. The straps across the front are strips of leather with a slot for the buttons to pass through.

 

I am away for the weekend as soon as I finish this email, however when I return on Tuesday I will post some close ups of one unissued one I have left here, and show the waterproof lining in between.

 

The coveralls I don't have any information on these, however I would think that they are in the WWI brown denim material, before they changed to blue denim.

 

Cheers ( Lewis )

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Schnicklfritz

I wish I could remember where I saw it, but the sheepskin lined coats were purchased from Sears and Roebucks I believe.

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I could not believe the "customizing" of the covers!

 

GB

 

PS Folks, Bob has this picture on eBay, if anyone is interested.

 

Those salty covers are one of the things that make me think China: I don't think they could have gotten away with that stateside. Another thing is the wall behind them. I visited some of the Northern China Marine websites and and found numerous photos showing that the Marines compound in Peiping/Peking was brick and there seemed to be a lot of the building whose lower portion was finished smooth as it is behind the car. Here's a couple of images of Peking Marines about 1939 - note the smooth lower wall and upper part brick:

 

chinawall.jpg

 

As for coats: I do know that the Marines were issuing store-bought winter coats to Marines in Iceland before WWII. The coats worn by these apparent motorpool guys do look a bit like the later Mackinaw "Jeep" coats which the Army came out with in 1938, and likewise the coveralls are similar to the HBT coveralls first issued in 1938, but those did not have that big slant pocket.

 

One thing I like about this photo is that we seldom most military photos from this era are usually either formal poses of guys in dress uniforms or official photos of troops in formation and/or training. This candid photo would never pass official muster but it's a revealing glimpse into a slice of old Corps life. I did decide to sell it: I've had that and some other pre-WWII (or post WWI) photos sitting in a pile on my desk for more than a year and I realized I'll never display them and they'll either get coffee spilled on them or buried away in a box somewhere. And if anyone is curious that is a five inches by seven inches photo and in order to get those closeups I set the scanner to enlarge it 400% and scanned at 150DPI.

 

Here's a closeup of a couple other faces - these were not kids:

 

chinamarculeft.jpg

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I have seen some of the type of coats in this pic, but they were not standard Marine issue. I still believe these were aquired from civilian sources. Camo poncho linings would have been available until sometime later in ww2. This pic is definetely late 20's or early 30's at best with those hats. They still have the earlier narrow chinstrap and have lighter colored brims indicating the browner shade of the earlier hats as opposed to near black of late 30's and on.

 

CB

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craig_pickrall

The oldest date I could find that showed that hat style was 1933. Prior to that they were still using the WW1 style hat until at least 1929. That style would have become available between 1929 and 1933. I can't believe they would take a new clothing item to use as work clothes so it is probably later than 1933.

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The oldest date I could find that showed that hat style was 1933. Prior to that they were still using the WW1 style hat until at least 1929. That style would have become available between 1929 and 1933. I can't believe they would take a new clothing item to use as work clothes so it is probably later than 1933.

Actually, these style hats started to replace the earlier bell crown sometime in the mid 1920's. Lon Chaney was wearing the new style shown in these photos in a 1926 movie!

 

CB

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The oldest date I could find that showed that hat style was 1933. Prior to that they were still using the WW1 style hat until at least 1929. That style would have become available between 1929 and 1933. I can't believe they would take a new clothing item to use as work clothes so it is probably later than 1933.

 

I especially like the crushers: maybe this is where the Air Corps guys got the inspiration. These hats are what make think this may be China. My only knowledge of China Marines uniform habits comes from reading WEB Griffin's "The Corps" in which he writes about a China Marine getting hassled about his unorthodox uniform practices when he returns to the states. Griffin is a thorough researcher so I assume there's a grain of salt in that.

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Just to add something here regarding the hats, it is not surprising at all to see these hats in a salty condition. Remember that at this time the Marines did not have "piss cutter" caps and the only headgear enlisted men had until the late 30's were the service (campaign) hats and these visor hats worn with blue, white, green or khaki covers.

I am quite sure this group photo in question could not date beyond the VERY early 30's at best, more likely late 20's.

Even the styling of the coats and overalls, not to mention the age of the car, rules out anything later in my opinion.

 

CB

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  • 13 years later...
David Conwill

Ancient topic, I realize, but I thought it might help if I pointed out that they're standing in front of a 1930-'31 Ford Model A Phaeton.

 

1930 Ford Beauty-11.jpg

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