USMC Korea greens with brown buttons

[Bob Hudson]

I've had a couple of USMC green uniform blouses hanging around for a while. Normally I don't buy Marine greens, but these were intriguing because the have the old shade of green and one has brown buttons.

 

First of all here is one of the coast alongside a modern Marine green blouse showing the color differences. These kinds of green uniforms are very difficult to photograph and get accurate colors. Usually the older ones especially come out looking gray, but I think this photo does a pretty good job of showing the bluer shade of green in the older uniforms. The old uniform has an October 1951 contract date on the label (as does the other blouse shown below). the newer one in the background is from the 1990's.

 

 

Now here are the 1951 coats. Each has the owner's name printed inside the right armhole. One of these belonged to a TE GRIMES and the other to a FA LORENTSEN. Notice that the green color came out differently this time (:

 

 

The coat on the top has buttons that show a bronze tint where the dark surface has worn away. The bottom one has brown buttons (the modern buttons are basically black steel).

 

 

Okay now for some questions....

 

We often see old Marine uniforms described as "kersey wool." Kersey basically means "a coarse ribbed woolen cloth" and the operative word is "coarse." When did they stop using that kind of wool and go the type of green color still used today?

 

How about the brown buttons? I read one online report from a Marine who said he was issued two blouses in the 60's, one with black buttons, one with brown buttons. Were these buttons originally used at the same time as the brown EGA's?

[Greg Robinson]

The Marine Corps made a switch from brown to black in the early '60's.....I think the date was 1962. This included boots and k-bar scabbards and I remember when I was at boot camp in '67 hearing that a Marine was "salty" if he had brown boots. But then this was 40 years ago so maybe my memory is wrong about this. But I did recently own a "greens" blouse dated 1962 that had brown buttons.

[USMCRECON]

I've had a couple of USMC green uniform blouses hanging around for a while. Normally I don't buy Marine greens, but these were intriguing because the have the old shade of green and one has brown buttons.

 

First of all here is one of the coast alongside a modern Marine green blouse showing the color differences. These kinds of green uniforms are very difficult to photograph and get accurate colors. Usually the older ones especially come out looking gray, but I think this photo does a pretty good job of showing the bluer shade of green in the older uniforms. The old uniform has an October 1951 contract date on the label (as does the other blouse shown below). the newer one in the background is from the 1990's.

 

 

Now here are the 1951 coats. Each has the owner's name printed inside the right armhole. One of these belonged to a TE GRIMES and the other to a FA LORENTSEN. Notice that the green color came out differently this time (:

 

 

The coat on the top has buttons that show a bronze tint where the dark surface has worn away. The bottom one has brown buttons (the modern buttons are basically black steel).

 

 

Okay now for some questions....

 

We often see old Marine uniforms described as "kersey wool." Kersey basically means "a coarse ribbed woolen cloth" and the operative word is "coarse." When did they stop using that kind of wool and go the type of green color still used today?

 

How about the brown buttons? I read one online report from a Marine who said he was issued two blouses in the 60's, one with black buttons, one with brown buttons. Were these buttons originally used at the same time as the brown EGA's?

 

That was probably me. When I went through Marine boot camp in 1966 I was issued two sets of the OD shade Marine greens. One of the blouses had black buttons and the other had brown ones. The DI told me to cut the brown buttons off and sew black ones on once I reached my first permanent duty station. Since, after all my training, my first duty station was Vietnam and my greens were in a sea bag on Okinawa, I never changed the buttons. I still have both uniforms, one with black and one with brown buttons.

 

I am also supprised to see the older "blanket wool" blouse with the later crossed rifle chevrons on it. I'm not sure exactly when the new style chevrons became standard but something in my memory says it was 'round about 1959 or 1960. I do specifically remember that when I was in ITR in 1966, one of my instructor/troop handlers was still wearing a forest green Vandegriff jacket and it, of course, had the new SGT chevrons with the crossed rifles. I personally never saw a full length blouse in the older material with newer chevrons, though. The ones you have must have been worn right at the transition period.

[bobgee]

That was probably me. When I went through Marine boot camp in 1966 I was issued two sets of the OD shade Marine greens. One of the blouses had black buttons and the other had brown ones. The DI told me to cut the brown buttons off and sew black ones on once I reached my first permanent duty station. Since, after all my training, my first duty station was Vietnam and my greens were in a sea bag on Okinawa, I never changed the buttons. I still have both uniforms, one with black and one with brown buttons.

 

I am also supprised to see the older "blanket wool" blouse with the later crossed rifle chevrons on it. I'm not sure exactly when the new style chevrons became standard but something in my memory says it was 'round about 1959 or 1960. I do specifically remember that when I was in ITR in 1966, one of my instructor/troop handlers was still wearing a forest green Vandegriff jacket and it, of course, had the new SGT chevrons with the crossed rifles. I personally never saw a full length blouse in the older material with newer chevrons, though. The ones you have must have been worn right at the transition period.

 

Howdy......New USMC rank insignia came in in early 1959. The transition was interesting. All current ranks became 'acting'. For example if you were a Cpl (E-3) you became an A/Cpl. When you passed the next pay grade promotion test, you became the new rank, i.e Cpl (E-4). If you didn't make the next grade by a date certain,(don't recall when that was, I think a year or two) you automatically became the new rank, i.e. L/Cpl ( E-3) and put on your new type chevrons.

 

Re: the uniforms, when the new light weight year-round greens were introduced, there was a transition period, probably several years, before you HAD to have the new uniforms. This Gunny continued to wear his old 'kersey' greens' and added his new rank. Transition from 'brown' to 'black' took place during Viet Nam as I recall during SecDef McNamara's tour when he was trying to standardize things.

 

That's my recall on the subject. Semper Fi......Bob

[Greg Robinson]

Okay now for some questions....

 

We often see old Marine uniforms described as "kersey wool." Kersey basically means "a coarse ribbed woolen cloth" and the operative word is "coarse." When did they stop using that kind of wool and go the type of green color still used today?

 

The nappy "blanket" wool greens were replaced not long after the Korean War to the kersey wool. I believe that was what I was issued in '67. Today they have a lighter weight green wool and I think it's worn year round. In the 1960's the greens were strictly winter service replaced by the khaki's....either long or short sleeve.

 

Greg

[cbuehler]

The Kersey wool material was used by the Marines for enlisted issue winter service uniforms since the adoption of the forest green service uniform. The nappy blanket material is this Kersey.

It is the same material that was used through the 1950's and even sometimes seen in use during the early 60's. The color varied slightly due to manufacturing allowances from a very green to almost greyish shade through the whole period of its use. I own or have seen these color variations from ww1 era uniforms through ww2 and Korea.

The modern worsted wool uniforms for enlisted (I think) may have started to appear in the very late 50's or more likely early 60's, but did not become standard until sometime later during the Vietnam era.

The change in material and modern dyes allowed a much more uniform shade of material that hasnt changed to the present day.

The change from bronze to black was official in the early 60's, but as usual, the bronze continued to be seen for years after that.

 

CB

[Ricardo]

Hi,

 

This Master sergeant could have this uniform and decided to use it.

 

For the rank (a old man in USMC), he could have had this uniform a many time ... and to be veteran of the WW2 and Korea War.

 

But .... 4 good conduct stripes ... represent each 3 years of service ... 12 years...

 

Best regards,

 

Ricardo.

[Bob Hudson]

By the way that is two different uniforms, in different sizes and different owner names stamped inside.

[usmc-collector]

regarding your question, I can provide you exact dates to your question:

 

- usmc uniforms were produced of kersey wool till 1963

- in 1963 was adopted new serge wool fabric

- the phase out date for kersey wool uniforms was 1 July 1971

 

The old winter uniforms manufactured of kersey wool were phased out by 1 July 1971. Overcoats manufactured of kersey wool could be worn until replacement was required. In the transitional period 1963-71 the individuals were not authorized to mix service uniforms items manufactured of kersey and serge fabric. Only exception was serge headgear, which could be worn with kersey uniforms.

 

JAROSLAV