MAA Posted October 1, 2010 Share #1 Posted October 1, 2010 Hoping to get some thoughts on this piece that I came across some time ago. I have never seen a real Distinguished Aerial Gunner badge in person, so when this piece came into my hands I was (somewhat) excited. This piece is different than what I have researched about these badges, in that it is smaller (measuring about 1.0" tal and 3/4" wide) and silver, not gold. It is marked with (raised) "sterling" and the pin is missing. I can't really believe this is a "sweetheart" piece? In my opinion it is unquestionably old, probably period original. Does anyone have any thoughts on this piece based on your (experience and facts) about this type of badge? Any information would be appreciated. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgee Posted October 1, 2010 Share #2 Posted October 1, 2010 Based on my limited knowledge I will say it is not official. Everything is wrong about it. Speculatively, what it may be is a miniature intended for dress wear though I have seen such a thing. And why would it be in silver rather than a gilded metal? Let the Forum chime in. Perhaps someone has one in their collection with source info. Bobgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftStalg1 Posted October 1, 2010 Share #3 Posted October 1, 2010 Hum :think: Do you have better photos to get a look at its construction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted October 1, 2010 Share #4 Posted October 1, 2010 Hum :think: Do you have better photos to get a look at its construction? I recently saw one of those at a local flea market. It is my opinion that it is a cracker jack-like toy. I have had the chance of actually handing a couple of real badges (for the gunner and the bombardier) and they are very striking. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschwartz Posted October 1, 2010 Share #5 Posted October 1, 2010 I have a picture on my site from Cliff Presley's collection of an attributed gold badge. You can see it by clicking here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftStalg1 Posted October 1, 2010 Share #6 Posted October 1, 2010 Nice! :w00t: :jeal0001: Anyone make copies of this for display? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftStalg1 Posted October 1, 2010 Share #7 Posted October 1, 2010 I recently saw one of those at a local flea market. It is my opinion that it is a cracker jack-like toy. I have had the chance of actually handing a couple of real badges (for the gunner and the bombardier) and they are very striking. Patrick Really Patrick, a toy made out of STERLING? Or am I just taking that to literaly? :emba0005: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted October 1, 2010 Share #8 Posted October 1, 2010 The badges were made of 14k gold and never came in a smaller size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted October 1, 2010 Share #9 Posted October 1, 2010 Really Patrick, a toy made out of STERLING? Or am I just taking that to literaly? :emba0005: I missed the sterling part--the one I saw was pot metal--but exactly like this one in every respect. Maybe in came in the family size box of cracker jacks? P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted October 2, 2010 Share #10 Posted October 2, 2010 Although not a wing badge the Distinguished Aerial Gunner badge and the similar Distinguished Aerial Bomber badge are two of the great treasures of American military aviation history. While these 14k gold badges are rarely seen they were awarded to the highest scorers at the annual gunnery and bombing matches, held from 1925 to 1932 at Langley Field, VA. Each badge had the recipient's name, grade and the year it was awarded engraved on the back. The first badges were not awarded until 1928, retroactive to 1925, in a ceremony by F. Trubee Davison, the Assistant Secretary of War. All badges presented in 1928 and 1929 were made by the Ordnance Department, Rock Island Arsenal using a government die, all other badges produced from 1929 to 1932 were made by Bailey, Banks & Biddle Company using a slightly different die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted October 3, 2010 Share #11 Posted October 3, 2010 OH MY! We ain't in Kansas anymore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted October 3, 2010 Share #12 Posted October 3, 2010 OH MY! We ain't in Kansas anymore! Yep, Happily, I was able to fondle a couple or three of another collector's badges (the Wing King's). Cliff's pictures are fantastic, but trust me, actually checking one out in public is even nicer. They are very striking badges. Thanks Cliff for sharing. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAA Posted October 3, 2010 Author Share #13 Posted October 3, 2010 Great images guys :thumbsup: These were truly awesome pieces. I guess my badge continues to be a mystery as to what purpose it really served when made? Thanks for all the input and information on these type badges ~ great stuff! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted October 3, 2010 Share #14 Posted October 3, 2010 Glad to know some of you liked the pictures. If you would care to compair the sudle differences that do exist between those badges that were designed by the Rock Island Arsenal, and under government contract with Bailey, Banks & Biddle, go to the bottom of this revised page on Bob's website: http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/btw/us/us.shtml Cheers, Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted October 3, 2010 Share #15 Posted October 3, 2010 Glad to know some of you liked the pictures. If you would care to compair the sudle differences that do exist between those badges that were designed by the Rock Island Arsenal, and under government contract with Bailey, Banks & Biddle, go to the bottom of this revised page on Bob's website: http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/btw/us/us.shtml Cheers, Cliff Cliff, Any idea where on a uniform these would be worn, if at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted October 3, 2010 Share #16 Posted October 3, 2010 Cliff, Any idea where on a uniform these would be worn, if at all? Yes, if one was presented to an officer during an official ceremony it would be pinned to his uniform below the wing badge and just above the left breast pocket; however, of the few recipients I was privileged to talk too, all said they never wore it again because they considered it too ostentatious. Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horsa Posted October 14, 2010 Share #17 Posted October 14, 2010 Although not a wing badge the Distinguished Aerial Gunner badge and the similar Distinguished Aerial Bomber badge are two of the great treasures of American military aviation history. While these 14k gold badges are rarely seen they were awarded to the highest scorers at the annual gunnery and bombing matches, held from 1925 to 1932 at Langley Field, VA. Each badge had the recipient's name, grade and the year it was awarded engraved on the back. The first badges were not awarded until 1928, retroactive to 1925, in a ceremony by F. Trubee Davison, the Assistant Secretary of War. All badges presented in 1928 and 1929 were made by the Ordnance Department, Rock Island Arsenal using a government die, all other badges produced from 1929 to 1932 were made by Bailey, Banks & Biddle Company using a slightly different die. Did the recipients go on to serve in WW2? If so, did their war record match their peacetime abilities? These are some of the nicest insignia I've seen, comparable to the inscribed Corps badges of the Civil War that were done in precious metals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted November 5, 2011 Share #18 Posted November 5, 2011 Did the recipients go on to serve in WW2? If so, did their war record match their peacetime abilities? These are some of the nicest insignia I've seen, comparable to the inscribed Corps badges of the Civil War that were done in precious metals. 'horsa' Although a limited number of the badges were awarded, several of the recipients did go on to served in WW2 and ten of them eventually achieved General officer rank. MG Merrill D. Burnside MG Warren R. Carter LG Harold L. George BG David D. Graves MG Westside T. Larson MG Charles W. Lawrence BG Winslow C. Morse MG James E. Parker General Earle E. Partridge MG John W. Sessums One officer, Earle E. Partridge, won the Fixed Gunnery event for pilots three years in a row, 1926, 1927 and 1928, but he was only allow to keep one badge in recognition for winning the 1926 event. Another officer, Harold C. King, who left the AAC a year or two later, actually won both the Distinguished Aerial Gunner award for observers in 1926 and the Distinguished Aerial Bomber award for bombardiers in 1927. He received both badges but fell on hard times during the great depression and hocked them at a pawn shop. Cliff PS: Just to better help put the subject into historical perspective, below are some images of at least two types of aircraft that were flown at the events, a Boeing P-12 pursuit ship and Keystone bomber. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0xMoj0mBrI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted November 5, 2011 Share #19 Posted November 5, 2011 Yes, if one was presented to an officer during an official ceremony it would be pinned to his uniform below the wing badge and just above the left breast pocket; however, of the few recipients I was privileged to talk too, all said they never wore it again because they considered it too ostentatious. Cliff Thanks so much... fascinating history there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teufelhunde.ret Posted November 5, 2011 Share #20 Posted November 5, 2011 Beautiful badge Cliff - thx for sharing it & the history w/ us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawk3370 Posted November 5, 2011 Share #21 Posted November 5, 2011 Although not a wing badge the Distinguished Aerial Gunner badge and the similar Distinguished Aerial Bomber badge are two of the great treasures of American military aviation history. While these 14k gold badges are rarely seen they were awarded to the highest scorers at the annual gunnery and bombing matches, held from 1925 to 1932 at Langley Field, VA. Each badge had the recipient's name, grade and the year it was awarded engraved on the back. The first badges were not awarded until 1928, retroactive to 1925, in a ceremony by F. Trubee Davison, the Assistant Secretary of War. All badges presented in 1928 and 1929 were made by the Ordnance Department, Rock Island Arsenal using a government die, all other badges produced from 1929 to 1932 were made by Bailey, Banks & Biddle Company using a slightly different die. Cliff, Once again I find myself truely amazed by the historical material you keep pulling out of you magnificant collection. Thanks so much for taking the time to educate us not only with pictures of the badges but with the history surrounding these awards. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted November 5, 2011 Share #22 Posted November 5, 2011 Very interesting thread. I've seen the badges before, but this was a good refresher course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted November 5, 2011 Share #23 Posted November 5, 2011 I must say that there is a huge difference in the first badge posted and the solid gold badges. The quality and construction are totally different. The first one posted does not appear to be an official piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warroom1 Posted December 5, 2014 Share #24 Posted December 5, 2014 If you want a good reproduction call *************** ................................. makes great badges and wings if you cant afford this the next best thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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