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Door Gunners' wing badge.


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#26 Bluehawk

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:40 PM

What a pleasant surprise to see this old thread revived with the addition of some new info. Thanks! The wing illustrated below is currently on ebay but is described as a "collector's piece".

If not mistaken or too senile, USAF airmen who did actually fire weapons out of aircraft (Spooky, Spectre et al) during VN wore some level of the normal Aircrew wing.

There was no authorized wing with a "G" in it, for airmen.

#27 MFT3

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:43 PM

Come on guys, you know I am going to show you the image! Both the metal and cloth versions in one photograph! Private Neil.

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#28 skypilot1

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:09 PM

If not mistaken or too senile, USAF airmen who did actually fire weapons out of aircraft (Spooky, Spectre et al) during VN wore some level of the normal Aircrew wing.

There was no authorized wing with a "G" in it, for airmen.


I had AF aircrew wings before being assigned to 1st Air Cal Div. As for the other, some say we did some say we didn't. I did finally dig out my 214 and it does show Army Air Crew Wings (gunner) gunner in prentices as well as AF crew wings. Now the question becomes for some, were they an authorized device or not. When I retired from the Air Force they made it a point to verify my medals and devices. As far as the Air Force was concerned the wings were authorized to be worn. End of subject for me. I am to old and tired to give a shinola one way or another. If they want to dig me up and remove them then so be it.

#29 atb

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:07 PM

Again and again, I do not dispute that the "G" wings were made, purchased and worn. I only say that the Army did not adopt, award or issue them as official qualification badges. (MFT3, you seem to be a very unique person. Have you found that Army Regulation that confirms your version of the Army's wear of the right shoulder SSI, you know the case of the 1st Log. Cmd. SSI?)

Edited by atb, 01 December 2012 - 06:15 PM.


#30 MFT3

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:53 PM

ATB, have you found me the photograph of the 1st Log patch being worn as a combat patch?

#31 MFT3

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 07:07 PM

Again and again, I do not dispute that the "G" wings were made, purchased and worn. I only say that the Army did not adopt, award or issue them as official qualification badges. (MFT3, you seem to be a very unique person. Have you found that Army Regulation that confirms your version of the Army's wear of the right shoulder SSI, you know the case of the 1st Log. Cmd. SSI?)


No one here is trying to say the "Gunner" wing was an official US Army award, we all know this. We're talking about the wearing of this "unofficial" award, which did occur.

#32 atb

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:08 AM

No one here is trying to say the "Gunner" wing was an official US Army award, we all know this. We're talking about the wearing of this "unofficial" award, which did occur.


Re-read skypilot1's posts. He believes it was so.

Sorry, no image yet. I suppose it is the same for your AR, too. My looking has been sporadic as the issue fades and new stuff comes up.

Edited by atb, 02 December 2012 - 05:08 AM.


#33 MFT3

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 06:09 AM

Re-read skypilot1's posts. He believes it was so.

Sorry, no image yet. I suppose it is the same for your AR, too. My looking has been sporadic as the issue fades and new stuff comes up.


Yes, I feel the same way.

#34 skypilot1

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:05 PM

Yes, I feel the same way.


Afternoon guys. I got out my stone tablet 214 again, and like I mentioned it does say Army Crew qualified with gunner in parenthesis. I did do, as some suggested and made some inquiries to some guys on the other threads who were door gunners. They all agree that the wings were not in fact an authorized item for class A wear, but many of them wore them anyway. My personal perception was being AF and not Army, was they were an authorized item. I wore them on my uniform until I went back to BDU's as a duty uniform. My impression was all these years that were was in accordance with Army Regs, and an authorized item. Now after 40 years I am finding out they are not the real deal. Apparently it is as some say on here that they were something made as a novelty item for in country use. Hey what the hell do I know "I’ am a bus driver".

#35 34BDQ

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:31 PM

As mentioned the door gunners wing was unofficial, and were originally worn by door gunners. If I remember correctly sometime in the mid 1960's, the first door gunner platoons began their training with the 25th Division in Hawaii. There was a call for volunteers and this is how it began. One of my classmates was one of the first to go through this training. There are also pocket patches that were worn by these gunners. The 6th MG Platoon, 1st Bn, 35TH Infantry had a pocket patch that had their regimental crest in the middle with wings on either side with 2 crossed lightning bolts in which was inscribed 118 Gunner. They were specifically assigned positions as door gunners.

#36 Sabrejet

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 01:28 AM

Does anyone have an example of an "original" they can post here? Thanks.

#37 rr01

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:00 AM

If I remember correctly, permanent aircrew wings in the '60s were available in two ways; 1~through a tech school or 2~a single combat sortie where the individual was listed on the crew orders and logged flying time.
As far as gunner wings, even though the Air Force version has been long phased out they still pop up on uniforms as a form of espirit de corps that distinduishes the gunner from the other crew positions. I am going to only speculate that the picture shown might have been part of an effort to acknowledge the contribution of the early door gunners which eventually gave way to the normal army aircrew badge. It is also entirely possible for an Army aircrew badge to be awarded to an Air Force member in much the same way other Army badges and qualifications can be obtained.
Co~incidentally, here is the official website for these guys: http://www.safesideassociation.org/ as well as a previous topic: http://www.usmilitar...eside-uniforms/
While reading the sites I was reminded of an official Air Force photo I saw of an Air Force unit in a recent combat jump but that might have been Civil Engineers {Red Horse}. So much for the old fashioned Air Farce ;-}

#38 vintageproductions

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:49 AM

Here are two vintage Vietnamese made pieces.

gnr.jpg

#39 Sabrejet

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:00 AM

Sand-cast? Thanks Bob!

#40 vintageproductions

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:22 AM

Ian, definately sandcast

#41 Sabrejet

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:53 AM

So...unless a "G" wing is theatre-made, like the examples above, then it's just a "made-for-collectors' piece", right.....or not?!

#42 Sabrejet

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:08 AM

Just found these "creations" on the net! :o

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#43 Tonomachi

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:21 AM

I found this in my photo reference and have no idea if this is an original piece or made for collectors during the South Vietnam War insignia

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#44 Tonomachi

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:22 AM

Back

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#45 rr01

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:26 AM

So...unless a "G" wing is theatre-made, like the examples above, then it's just a "made-for-collectors' piece", right.....or not?!

I suspect they are no less a collectors piece than the ones you see that substitute shapely legs for wings.

#46 Sabrejet

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:36 AM

But you'd been unlikely to find them bearing major manufacturers' marks such as NS Meyer...Vanguard...Ira Green etc?

#47 vintageproductions

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:38 AM

Here are real Vietnamese made sandcast Bush Pilot wings

bp.jpg

Edited by vintageproductions, 05 December 2012 - 11:38 AM.


#48 Sabrejet

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:41 AM

Very errrrrr.....cool?! :lol: Begs the question what the qualification criteria was? ;)

#49 rr01

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:53 AM

Very errrrrr.....cool?! :lol: Begs the question what the qualification criteria was? ;)

Multiple tours as a WestPac Warrior, China sailor or China Marine and it be listed on the '214 ;-}

#50 Sabrejet

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:55 AM

Multiple tours as a WestPac Warrior, China sailor or China Marine and it be listed on the '214 ;-}


Above and below the call of duty?! ;)


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