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Aid in Rank research


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#1 memphismeister

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 04:29 PM

Hey Guys, I am doing a major personal project with a Vietnam data base and I need help with ranks.
I dont know the rank structure of the navy, marines or airforce durring the Vietnam war.
can you folks chime in and give me the abreviations for the above?
Also what is the difference in a PSGT and a SFC during the Vietnam war in relation to army rank/

Edited by memphismeister, 21 August 2010 - 04:30 PM.


#2 memphismeister

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 08:46 PM

Polite bump

#3 Bluehawk

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 03:50 AM

Well, the Air Force did not make your job easier during Vietnam, as to enlisted ranks, 1961-75.

In 1966, right in the middle of a war (for what possible good reason they HAD to do it right then nobody knows), they determined that:

E-2 (1 stripe) should become Airman instead of A3C
E-3 should become A1C instead of A2C
E-4 should become Sgt (for awhile) then SrA instead of A1C
MSgt went from 6 stripes to 7
SMSgt went from 7 stripes to 8
CMSgt went from 8 stripes to 9

To make everything even weirder, for a short time they also decided to produce enlisted chevrons without a white/silver star in the center of the circle.

Presumably, all of this was so as to conform more closely with recent traditional Army rank structure. But, it created a mess and, to most airmen, a horrendous embarrassment.

Officer ranks were left alone, the only difference between then and now is that then we still had Warrant Officers.

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Edited by Bluehawk, 22 August 2010 - 03:53 AM.


#4 blkjack07

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 06:09 AM

Also what is the difference in a PSGT and a SFC during the Vietnam war in relation to army rank/

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong:
SFC stands for Sergeant First Class, which is a rank, and PSGT stands for Platoon Sergeant, which is a position title. A PSGT is a SFC, but a SFC is not always a PSGT.


#5 Lee Ragan

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 07:02 AM

Well, the Air Force did not make your job easier during Vietnam, as to enlisted ranks, 1961-75.

In 1966, right in the middle of a war (for what possible good reason they HAD to do it right then nobody knows), they determined that:

E-2 (1 stripe) should become Airman instead of A3C
E-3 should become A1C instead of A2C
E-4 should become Sgt (for awhile) then SrA instead of A1C
MSgt went from 6 stripes to 7
SMSgt went from 7 stripes to 8
CMSgt went from 8 stripes to 9

To make everything even weirder, for a short time they also decided to produce enlisted chevrons without a white/silver star in the center of the circle.

Presumably, all of this was so as to conform more closely with recent traditional Army rank structure. But, it created a mess and, to most airmen, a horrendous embarrassment.

Officer ranks were left alone, the only difference between then and now is that then we still had Warrant Officers.


Mike,
USAF Master Sergeants have always worn 6 stripes, SMsgts have always worn seven stripes and Chief MSgts have always worn 8 stripes. NO ONE in the USAF wears or has ever worn 9 stripes. When McPeak had the chevrons redesigned in 94, they just shifted stripes around, but the same number of stripes were worn for those ranks that always were. The center of the star was changed only for E-1 thru E-4 for awhile. All else stayed the same as before. The change to those chevrons came in the mid 70's and were changed back again in the early 90's.

Edited by Lee Ragan, 22 August 2010 - 07:05 AM.


#6 memphismeister

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 08:13 AM

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong:
SFC stands for Sergeant First Class, which is a rank, and PSGT stands for Platoon Sergeant, which is a position title. A PSGT is a SFC, but a SFC is not always a PSGT.


Your right but in the cofelt data base they do list psgt as a rank. Weird.

#7 memphismeister

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 08:14 AM

Ok Marines and Navy guys chime in.

#8 Mark1

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 09:32 PM

1959 to 1976 USAF enlisted rank

E1 no stripe (Basic Airman)
E2 1 stripe (Airman 3rd Class)
E3 2 stripes (Airman 2nd Class)
E4 3 stripes (Airman 1st Class)
E5 4 stripes (Staff Sergeant)
E6 5 stripes (Technical Sergeant)
E7 6 stripes (Master Sergeant)
E7 6 stripes with diamond (1st Sergeant)
E8 7 stripes (Senior Master Sergeant)
E8 7 stripes with diamond (1st Sergeant)
E9 8 stripes (Chief Master Sergeant)
E9 8 stripes with diamond (1st Sergeant)

in 1967 USAF added another E9 Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force (8 stripes with wreath around the star)

in 1976 and again 1991 the USAF really screwed around with the enlisted rank structure

USAF officer rank

O1 Second Lieutenant (gold colored bar)
O2 First Lieutenant (silver colored bar)
O3 Captain (2 silver colored bars)
O4 Major (gold colored oak leaf)
O5 Lieutenant Colonel (silver colored oak leaf)
O6 Colonel (Silver colored eagle)
O7 Brigadier General (1 silver colored star)
O8 Major General (2 silver colored stars)
O9 Lieutenant General (3 silver colored stars)
O10 General (4 silver colored stars)

General of the Air Force (5 silver colored stars)

USAF Warrant Officers

WO1 Warrant Officer (gold colored bar with 2 blue squares)
CWO2 Chief Warrant Officer (gold colored bar with 3 blue squares)
CWO3 Chief Warrant Officer (silver colored bar with 2 blue squares)
CWO4 Chief Warrant Officer (silver colored bar with 3 blue squares)

the USAF stopped appointing warrant officers in 1959, most warrant officers became officers in the 1960's
the last warrant officer retired in 1992, all warrant officer rank still authorized but not used.

Mark

#9 Mark1

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 10:27 PM

Well, the Air Force did not make your job easier during Vietnam, as to enlisted ranks, 1961-75.

In 1966, right in the middle of a war (for what possible good reason they HAD to do it right then nobody knows), they determined that:

E-2 (1 stripe) should become Airman instead of A3C
E-3 should become A1C instead of A2C
E-4 should become Sgt (for awhile) then SrA instead of A1C
MSgt went from 6 stripes to 7
SMSgt went from 7 stripes to 8
CMSgt went from 8 stripes to 9

To make everything even weirder, for a short time they also decided to produce enlisted chevrons without a white/silver star in the center of the circle.

Presumably, all of this was so as to conform more closely with recent traditional Army rank structure. But, it created a mess and, to most airmen, a horrendous embarrassment.

Officer ranks were left alone, the only difference between then and now is that then we still had Warrant Officers.


E1 Private (1948 - 1952) changed to E1 Basic Airman (1952 - 1959) then to E1 Airman Basic (1959 - present). E1 rank has no insignia

E2 Private 1st Class (1948 - 1952) changed to E2 Airman 3rd Class (1952 - 1976) and in 1976 the rank changed to E2 Airman (from 1976 to 1991 the star was blacked out)

E3 Corporal (1948 - 1952) changed to E3 Airman 2nd Class (1952 - 1976) in 1976 the rank changed to E3 Airman 1st Class (from 1976 to 1991 the star was blacked out)

E4 Sergeant (1948 to 1952) changed to E4 Airman 1st Class (1952 - 1976) in 1976 the rank changer to E4 Senior Airman or E4 Sergeant (from 1976 to 1991 the rank of senior airman the star was blacked out and the sergeant rank was from 1976 to 1991)

Sergeant stripes never changed the amount of stripes, in 1991 the E7, E8 and E9 rank moved one stripe from the bottom to the top

E5, E6, and E7 rank (1948 to present)

E7 1st Sergeant, E8's and E9's (1959 - present)

E9 Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force (1967 - present)

Mark

#10 memphismeister

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 03:35 AM

Thank you for the wonderful world of confusion for the Airforce. lol.
Ok Navy and Marines chim in.

#11 Lee Ragan

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 02:03 PM

E1 Private (1948 - 1952) changed to E1 Basic Airman (1952 - 1959) then to E1 Airman Basic (1959 - present). E1 rank has no insignia



E4 Sergeant (1948 to 1952) changed to E4 Airman 1st Class (1952 - 1976) in 1976 the rank changer to E4 Senior Airman or E4 Sergeant (from 1976 to 1991 the rank of senior airman the star was blacked out and the sergeant rank was from 1976 to 1991)



Mark


The E-4 Sergeant came back into existance in October 1967. I know, I was one. The E-4 Sergeants were phased out in the late 70's or early 80's (can't find my ref. on this date), and all E-4's bcame Senior Airmen. The E-4 Sergeant never had the blanked-out center in it's chevrons, but the original Senior Airman's chevrons did.
Now is everybody good and confused? :lol:

#12 memphismeister

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 05:21 PM

The E-4 Sergeant came back into existance in October 1967. I know, I was one. The E-4 Sergeants were phased out in the late 70's or early 80's (can't find my ref. on this date), and all E-4's bcame Senior Airmen. The E-4 Sergeant never had the blanked-out center in it's chevrons, but the original Senior Airman's chevrons did.
Now is everybody good and confused? :lol:

Lordy me yes :huh: :huh:

#13 memphismeister

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 04:43 AM

polite bump

#14 flightmac

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 11:18 AM

The E-4 Sergeant came back into existance in October 1967. I know, I was one. The E-4 Sergeants were phased out in the late 70's or early 80's (can't find my ref. on this date), and all E-4's bcame Senior Airmen. The E-4 Sergeant never had the blanked-out center in it's chevrons, but the original Senior Airman's chevrons did.
Now is everybody good and confused? :lol:


I was both a Sr Airman and "buck" Sgt. First you were promoted to E-4 Sr Airman. Then your Commander could make you a Non-Commissioned Officer - Sergeant (E-4); if he thought you were deserving, frequently just before you were (and could legally be) promoted to E-5 Staff Sergeant.


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