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Vietnam Era AN/PAS-4 Scope


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#1 AirMechanic

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 06:20 PM

Does anyone have a picture of the Vietnam Era AN/PAS-4 scope with the case and accessories? I had a gentleman call me offering to sell me a scope that he said is an AN/PAS-4, but this is out of the realm of my knowledge. Any idea what these scopes go for?

#2 doyler

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 07:56 PM

Here is a site.I know there are more and forums too for nite vision gear.From guys who I know that collect it they always are careful not to pay or over pay to much as there can be a host of problems or missing parts in these systems.


http://www.x20.org/n...vision/PVS4.htm

#3 45ACP

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:34 PM

Was the Vietnam scope PVS2? Isn't the "4" post Vietnam?

#4 AirMechanic

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:35 PM

It isnt a PVS scope, the designation is AN/PAS 4.

#5 doyler

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:42 PM

Here ya go

Scroll down and you will see the early set up for the XM21(M14 sniper)system.Kind od looks like the scope for the carbine but not.It is IR(infa red) and the light source is the big dish on top.I think the draw back on these is the muzzle flash will wash out the scope.The PVs series corrected this eventually if I recall correctly.Haxkdriver can give you better info on these systems

RD

http://imageevent.co...fieldxm21sniper

Edited by doyler, 02 August 2010 - 08:50 PM.


#6 hawkdriver

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 11:24 PM

The PAS 4 is the early Meta scope, the PVS-4 is the post vietnam rifle scope. Meta scopes don't bring much money because you can very rarely find batteries as they were proprietary and there is another part that breaks and they are impossible to find. The Isrealies quit using these some time ago and were the last ones to use them, so when the parts dried up, these scopes became useless for anything but display.

#7 B229

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 11:24 AM

Here ya go

Scroll down and you will see the early set up for the XM21(M14 sniper)system.Kind od looks like the scope for the carbine but not.It is IR(infa red) and the light source is the big dish on top.I think the draw back on these is the muzzle flash will wash out the scope.The PVs series corrected this eventually if I recall correctly.Haxkdriver can give you better info on these systems

RD


The first NV scopes, such as the AN/PAS-4, were active infrared systems that required a large light with an IR filter. The light "illuminated" things in the IR spectrum and the scope, which could "see" IR light, allowed you to view whatever was illuminated. The drawback, besides the size and weight, is the large IR light can be seen by anyone with an IR capable veiwer. The PVS sights are "starlight" systems that use a series of light intensifiers to amplify the ambient visible light from stars, the moon or any other source of background light. Newer NV systems are passive infrared. They simply pick up the infrared radiation given off by objects and create a picture based on the different levels of radiation emitted.

#8 hawkdriver

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 11:42 AM

The PVS sights are "starlight" systems that use a series of light intensifiers to amplify the ambient visible light from stars, the moon or any other source of background light. Newer NV systems are passive infrared. They simply pick up the infrared radiation given off by objects and create a picture based on the different levels of radiation emitted.


The current Gen III is still light amplification and it works in the near IR range with a single intensifier. As B229 stated, the Metascopes as you are speaking of required a significant amount of IR light to be able to see and were only effective out to about 70 or 100 yards at best on a good day. The Gen II and Gen III utilize a photo cathode to convert photons into electrons where they then excite a phosphor screen after the electrons are multiplied, giving the tell tale green that everyone is used to seeing. These systems amplify light upeards of 10,000 times. Since they only amplify light, they are unable to see anything in pure pitch black environments. The original PAS-4 Metascopes were very poor at seeing in the dark better than a well dark adapted eye. Hence the continual look for something better, the Gen II starlight scopes. to current PVS-14s, PVS-7s, and ANVIS series of NV. There is no such thing as Gen IV, but there are systems now that merge light intensification and Infra Red heat signatures.

#9 B229

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 11:56 AM

The current Gen III is still light amplification and it works in the near IR range with a single intensifier. As B229 stated, the Metascopes as you are speaking of required a significant amount of IR light to be able to see and were only effective out to about 70 or 100 yards at best on a good day. The Gen II and Gen III utilize a photo cathode to convert photons into electrons where they then excite a phosphor screen after the electrons are multiplied, giving the tell tale green that everyone is used to seeing. These systems amplify light upeards of 10,000 times. Since they only amplify light, they are unable to see anything in pure pitch black environments. The original PAS-4 Metascopes were very poor at seeing in the dark better than a well dark adapted eye. Hence the continual look for something better, the Gen II starlight scopes. to current PVS-14s, PVS-7s, and ANVIS series of NV. There is no such thing as Gen IV, but there are systems now that merge light intensification and Infra Red heat signatures.


Thanks for the technical back-up...I figured I was probably digging myself a hole by being too general. It's always good to get our facts straight.

#10 hawkdriver

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 12:07 PM

The biggest confusion most people have with NV is that while the goggles can see into the near IR, they also see all visible spectrums of light. FLIR sees only the IR as heat as opposed to light.
Here is a picture I took the other night while flying. While there was sufficient ambient light to see, there was so much dust in the air that the light was being reflected off the dust and made it nearly impossible to see the ground through the goggles. If you looked under the goggles, you could almost see better than with them. Sometimes, NV can be to good unfortunately.

Posted Image

#11 45ACP

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 08:49 PM

I did not know that they were still using IR that late in the game. Learn something new every day.

#12 AustinO

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 08:00 AM

The biggest confusion most people have with NV is that while the goggles can see into the near IR, they also see all visible spectrums of light. FLIR sees only the IR as heat as opposed to light.
Here is a picture I took the other night while flying. While there was sufficient ambient light to see, there was so much dust in the air that the light was being reflected off the dust and made it nearly impossible to see the ground through the goggles. If you looked under the goggles, you could almost see better than with them. Sometimes, NV can be to good unfortunately.

Posted Image

Uhh should you really be flying and trying to take pictures at the same time? (Yes, I'm calling your skills into question here :naughty: )

#13 hawkdriver

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 08:22 AM

A.) I'm not flying (notice, it's in trim and level flight)
B.) I simply slid the camera up between my right eye and tube, I could still see out the other tube.
C.) I normally fly with my eyes closed anyway, (flying scares me)


45ACP, they didn't last long because when the enemy finally captured some, they just looked for the big flashlight and could find the positions. That got the passive systems going.

Edited by hawkdriver, 06 August 2010 - 08:24 AM.


#14 45ACP

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 04:52 PM

That makes a lot of sense. Why do something that is going to draw fire.

45ACP, they didn't last long because when the enemy finally captured some, they just looked for the big flashlight and could find the positions. That got the passive systems going.



#15 AustinO

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 09:34 PM

A.) I'm not flying (notice, it's in trim and level flight)
B.) I simply slid the camera up between my right eye and tube, I could still see out the other tube.
C.) I normally fly with my eyes closed anyway, (flying scares me)
45ACP, they didn't last long because when the enemy finally captured some, they just looked for the big flashlight and could find the positions. That got the passive systems going.

LOL at C, made my night! (lame Friday night!) Thanks for the explanation Hawk...

#16 Misanthropic_Gods

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 11:59 PM

Ha ha, great picture and and explanation Hawk, hopefully you will have a package from me heading your way. Anything you need from the sates by any chance?

#17 hawkdriver

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 05:44 AM

Anything you need from the sates by any chance?



Actually! A couple boxes of dryer sheets would be nice!

#18 Misanthropic_Gods

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 09:31 AM

No need to pollute the thread, PM sent instead

Edited by Misanthropic_Gods, 07 August 2010 - 09:37 AM.



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