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My US WWII Deacs


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#1 Guest_falay_*

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 12:23 PM

All deacs except the Colt 1911 - its just an all metal replica - hoping to add one to my collection.

Falay

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#2 Charlie Flick

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 01:01 PM

Hi Falay:

Welcome to the Forum.

Nice stuff. By "deacs" do you mean deactivated? Where are you posting from?

I like the Victory Model there. What can you tell me about your Victory and the 6" Military & Police S&W?

Charlie

#3 artu44

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 06:25 AM

Everytime I hear the word deactivated, I become suddenly sad. I know it's the only way to own something which looks the real thing but I KNOW they butchered it.
Is not the barrel of that .455 Hand Ejector too long for the US M1909 revolver holster?

#4 artu44

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 07:07 AM

Charlie is right. Comparing the revolvers I see frames are identical. The M1909 hlster misleading me. At this point Falay, you have to find an M1917 S&W or Colt revolver to fill that holster.

#5 2ad82recon

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 07:33 AM

Artu be careful of using the word "butchered" regarding deactivated weapons.....bear in mind my friend that that is the ONLY way we can LEGALLY own collectible weapons in the UK...at least they outwardly look complete and authentic. :rolleyes:

Especially carrying weapons at a public show

For BUTCHERED see the American way of DEACTIVATION.......... http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/thumbdown.gif

it annoys me that some people especially purists seem to seize upon the UK method of deactivating guns as a crime and cant help making their feelings very loudly heard..i can understand this http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif

but beware because all its gonna take is a few more Republiks like Kalifornia and a few more Amish type events in the USA and all of a sudden our Deacs are gonna look awfully GOOD....

Rant Over..off soap box now.................... http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/w00t.gif

Regards

Lloyd

#6 artu44

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 09:10 AM

My stance about deacs it's only matter of feelings not purism. I really SUFFER when I saw, or worst, I handle a deac because I am of animist religion and to me putting the propane torch or the welding electrode on a gun will kill its soul. I unfortunately remember the happy times when the favorite sport was searching some WWII left back, yes it was illegal but in those times the worst criminal was the chicken thieves, no terrorism, no politics and such a stuff. Being money limited you could have a piece a time, just the time to disassembly it a couple of times then you had to resell it to finance the next purchase. Then 70s came and everything stopped, you really would have risk too much for an innocent hobby.
Just to do a sample, I saw in a gun shop a quite scarce MP41 with its wooden stock, well one of the deactivating operations was to weld the bolt to frame open 1". Believe me I could understand very well people could be happy with what is allowed but not me. Another sample: I'm collecting strictly US belts WWI and WWII, which can correctly carry a pistol or a revolver, complete with any possible accessory you can hook on. This is a choice descending from budget reasons, I cannot waste all my retired wage in hobbies. Too bad italian law was uptodated and you can legally own as maximum 3 common guns (killing tool for selfdefence) 7 sport guns and illimitate hunting guns. This way, having a S&W 1917, a brazilian contract S&W M1937 and an M1911A1 auto I completed my allowance so when I'll arrive to complete a belt with a S&W Victory holster, I'll buy a dummy one not a deactivated one.

#7 artu44

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 02:16 AM

I forgot to tell that it's possible having more guns than the ones allowed issuing with a little of burocracy a collection license with no expenses. The only problem is that guns listed in the license must stay at home, you cannot bear them nor bring to the range and more you cannot own ammo for them. Even these limitations hurt my senses so I'll never issue such a license.

#8 bilko *Deceased*

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 02:28 AM

Artu,

What is the law in italy over De-act arm?As here in england its very tight!!

Dave.

Edited by bilko, 02 January 2007 - 02:35 AM.


#9 artu44

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 03:31 AM

Artu,

What is the law in italy over De-act arm?As here in england its very tight!!

Dave.


In Italy they sell mainly submachinguns as deacts because the only restricted guns are the full auto ones and 9mm luger guns and ammo. For these latter a smart Israeli designer invented the 9x21mm round loaded with the same performances and overall lenght as the 9x19 parabellum then Berettas, Lugers, P35, P38, and so on, here are butchered and legalized simply reaming the chamber 2mm longer. Few years ago the same was applied to the 45ACP, they invented the 45HP shortening 1mm the ACP case but today no army has the 45ACP issued so it became legal.
The real problem with deacts is that only italian deactivating specs are applicable. This way you cannot import nothing already deacted, even in a more restrictive way, but you are forced to pay also an italian authorized deacter only to have his certificate stating that the deactivation complies with italian laws.

For those who understand a little italian there is the police rules about deacs. If someone is interested to some particukar article, I'll be glad to translate for him.

http://www.earmi.it/...ggi/demilit.htm

Edited by artu44, 03 January 2007 - 03:36 AM.


#10 artu44

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 05:54 AM

Just for info below you'll find the technical specs for the deactivation as per italian law specs.


TECHNICAL PRESCRIPTIONS.
The military small arms, the military alike arms or common type not military arsm can be considered “deactivated”, in permanent and irreversible way, when on it they come contextually executed ,following the rules of art and in the same specimen, the following operations inherent to the various parts, sistems or devices:
a) Bolts in general: they must be bored out longitudinally for all their length and with a diameter not inferior to that one of the bottom of the cartridge; they must even more be deprived of one of the, if present, rails of sliding, of the inner pieces and welded entirely to the frame by means of a string of welding.;
B) Barrel/barrels: it must be provided to the removal of a portion by means of milling a channel, reaching the bore, starting from the chamber and wide as the bore and for a lenght not inferior to 30% of the length of the whole barrel. In the remaining 70% of the barrel lenght an iron rod of the same diameter of the bore has to be inserted and welded to to the barel at its ends, or locked by a transverse pin in a blind hole which has to be welded. Moreover the barrel has to be rendered not removable by means of a string welding , or means of a pin of suitable diameter, welded to the extremities;
c) firing pin, extractor and ejector must be eliminates or rendered unserviceable;
d) bipod, gun carriages and aiming devices must be immobilized by means of welding string
e) bayonet: the foldable bayonet part of the arm must be rendered inoffensive according to the art. the 4 of the law n. 36/1990 and immobilized in folded position by means of welding string;
f) piston for gas operated guns: in the gas operated repetition guns, the gas piston must be eliminated;
g) bolts for submachineguns, LMGs semiauto rifles and MGS must be locked in semiopen position;
h) Magazine: if any, it must be welded or glued (polymer frame) in its place, deprived of the inner parts. The milling of the lips must also be carried out;
i) cylinder of revolvers: the dividing walls of the chambers must be milled out with cutters of diameter at least 3/4 of that one of the same chambers for length not inferior to 3/4 of that one of the cylinder, and the cylinder must be milled that must be blocked to the frame in irreversible way.
Moreover, the automatic and semi-automatic guns to be deactivated must be deprived of the all small inner parts and the room left has to be filled with a piece of the same metal of the frame welded in place.In case the gun frame is realized from tecnopolymer, the operation of filling of the empty spaces must be executed with structural adhesives. The foretold operations must render the the gun unsuitable to its purpose and also rendering the restoration and the use of the parts of it impossible.

Do you still think I could be named "purist" because I refuse even to touch these poor butchered souls?

Edited by artu44, 03 January 2007 - 05:55 AM.


#11 artu44

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 08:11 AM

These are technical specs for "demilitarized guns".


The operations of “demilitarization” must be performed on the following parts, mechanisms or technical devices as per the prescriptions indicated. The military small arms and the military alike arms can be considered “demilitarizad”, in permanent and irreversible way, when on it they come contextually executed ,following the rules of art and in the same specimen, the following operations inherent to the various parts, sistems or devices:
a) trigger group: the transformation from full auto to semiauto must be carried out in permanent and irreversible way. Moreover it must be carried out the removal and/or modification of the partss who concur to full auto operations and the modification of the relative seats;
B) grenade launcher; if present, it must worked at the lathe up to the 20 mm.diameter and anyway be modified so as it is no more be able to perform its own function;
c) grenades sight; it must be removed;
d) magazine must contain the number of cartridges previewed when the gun was classified in the national Catalogue of the common guns (generally 5 rounds). In order to limit the capacity transverse pins or welded plates are not admitted
e) collapsible and/or telescopic stock; it is not allowed. If present it must be locked all open in permanent and irreversible way.

A gun demilitarized this way become a "common" gun and it can be bought, as any other gun, sport or hunting, having the needed authorization.
The documents necessary for buying a gun are:
- Dedicated allowance for a specific gun from the Police Office ,or
- License of bearing a rifle for hunting, or
- License of bearing a rifle for sport purpose, or
- License of bearing a pistol for self defence

The "normal" citizen can are very easily obtain the first three documents while the last one is impossible to have without very serious reasons as transport of valuables and similar.

Just for a sample, with my hunting license I bought in 1996 a chinese SKS complete with its spike bayonet but with the magazine reduced to 5 rounds via a transverse split pin through the mag wall. In those days this kind modification was allowed. A good thing is that if you have a gun deac or demil as per ancient less restrictive specs, you are authorized to maintain it as is.

Edited by artu44, 03 January 2007 - 08:13 AM.



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