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Radarman | Operations Specialist Crows

Started by 67Rally , Jun 26 2010 10:25 AM

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#1 67Rally

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 10:25 AM

This is an early radarman third class petty officer badge. The insignia very closely resembles that of the radioman. From what I have researched, radiomen initially were responsible for the operation and maintenance of the radar gear (makes sense since radar is a radio transmitter/receiver):
Posted Image

This just arrived yesterday - it is a chief radarman silver bullion on wool, still sealed in the Gemsco package. I am not certain of the date of this badge:
Posted Image

In 1972, the RD rating changed to Operations Specialist (OS) with the equipment maintenance responsibility shifting over to the Electronics Technicians(ET) and ECM/ECCM duties shifting over to the Electronic Warfare Technicians (EW).

These are OS rating badges trimmed to an OS3 from 1987:
Posted Image Posted Image

Here is an Operations Specialist Second Class rate insignia that is made for a peacoat. Note the deformed crow - missing part of one leg and the entire 2nd leg. This is what happens when you're desperate and the all the uniform shop has is a deformity and you're about to deploy:
Posted Image

I am curious to hear from sigsaye as to which of these crows are the "new, wimpy crows."

#2 PatchMeThru

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 09:26 PM

I am curious to hear from sigsaye as to which of these crows are the "new, wimpy crows."


I bet he chimes in with the ST3 (White CNT 3rd Class) one shown above.

Edited by PatchMeThru, 27 June 2010 - 09:27 PM.


#3 sigsaye

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 04:12 AM

Yep, the white one is the post '84 wimpy style. The blue is the pre'84, not too bad looking eagle. Your OS2 crow was not actually made for the P-Coat, but rather was the style that was made for all blue uniforms in the mid-'70s. As you can see from this selection, three variations were all in use at the same time, from the same source (Navy Exchange?) Which just goes to show that you really can't date Navy stuff by the crow.

Steve Hesson

#4 topdcnut

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 06:44 AM

I bet he chimes in with the ST3 (White CNT 3rd Class) one shown above.

[ I've gone from top to bottom and cannot find the ST3? I however, think they should never have gotten away from the 1905 crow (eagle).]

#5 67Rally

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 12:42 PM

Yep, the white one is the post '84 wimpy style. The blue is the pre'84, not too bad looking eagle. Your OS2 crow was not actually made for the P-Coat, but rather was the style that was made for all blue uniforms in the mid-'70s. As you can see from this selection, three variations were all in use at the same time, from the same source (Navy Exchange?) Which just goes to show that you really can't date Navy stuff by the crow.

Steve Hesson



Steve,

Thanks for the input.

I went through a pile of my uniforms and located yet another style (I'll have to post a photo) that resembles the blue OS3 patch but has the red stitching inside the beak. How many variations exist in the modern era?

By the way, most of my crows came from uniform shops (at the NEX) in various locales - San Diego, Seattle, Bremerton, Pearl.

#6 sigsaye

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 08:47 PM

Steve,

Thanks for the input.

I went through a pile of my uniforms and located yet another style (I'll have to post a photo) that resembles the blue OS3 patch but has the red stitching inside the beak. How many variations exist in the modern era?

By the way, most of my crows came from uniform shops (at the NEX) in various locales - San Diego, Seattle, Bremerton, Pearl.

The red stitching was pretty common with tailor made crows. My gold SM1 crow has that. Love it. don't know if any of the "Issue" crows did. There are un countable variations. Each manufactuerer at times had differances, the various issue versions with ever changing back fabric and then toss in all the tailor mades....

Steve Hesson

#7 67Rally

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 11:00 AM

The red stitching was pretty common with tailor made crows. My gold SM1 crow has that. Love it. don't know if any of the "Issue" crows did. There are un countable variations. Each manufactuerer at times had differances, the various issue versions with ever changing back fabric and then toss in all the tailor mades....

Steve Hesson



You seem very knowledgeable regarding naval uniforms. Is there anything definitive out there that discusses the variations of fabrics used for the uniforms:

Dress Blues
Dress Whites
Undress Blues
Undress Whites
Khakis
Greens
Greys
Etc.

I know the difference in the wool material on my grandfather's dress blue jumper (WWII) from my own (1980s-90s) and the cotton white jumpers of WWII are vastly different from my CNT whites. Beyond that, the variations escape me.

#8 sigsaye

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 05:40 PM

There were the issue uniforms. All white uniforms were of the same fabric. All the crows for blue uniforms were the same. Khaki and Gray were cotton drill and green were the worsted wool. OK, then you had Tailor made Dress Blues which tended to be a finer and "blacker" wool, almost like the stuff issued today. they also made Tailor made whites which were of a fabric called "Shark Skin" It was a type of cotton, but lighter that the issue stuff. Ant then, you go with hte Tailor made khakis and grays which could also be made of a tropical weight worsted wool, as were some of the greens (a lighter weight than standard. While the khakis, grays and greens were for officers and CPOs, and therefore "Private Purchase" by nature, standard "issue" items were produced by the Naval Clothing Factory for sale. These were the cotton drill uniforms. These were also avail from private tailors in the same fabrics, or the finer woolens.

Steve Hesson

#9 PatchMeThru

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 08:33 PM

[ I've gone from top to bottom and cannot find the ST3? I however, think they should never have gotten away from the 1905 crow (eagle).]


You are correct, I should have said OS3, not ST3.

#10 dpcsdan

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 07:58 AM

There were the issue uniforms. All white uniforms were of the same fabric. All the crows for blue uniforms were the same. Khaki and Gray were cotton drill and green were the worsted wool. OK, then you had Tailor made Dress Blues which tended to be a finer and "blacker" wool, almost like the stuff issued today. they also made Tailor made whites which were of a fabric called "Shark Skin" It was a type of cotton, but lighter that the issue stuff. Ant then, you go with hte Tailor made khakis and grays which could also be made of a tropical weight worsted wool, as were some of the greens (a lighter weight than standard. While the khakis, grays and greens were for officers and CPOs, and therefore "Private Purchase" by nature, standard "issue" items were produced by the Naval Clothing Factory for sale. These were the cotton drill uniforms. These were also avail from private tailors in the same fabrics, or the finer woolens.

Steve Hesson

Oh boy, shark skin whites! Really looked sharp on a slim sailor.

Much more rare than tailor-made dress blues.

Here's my tailored, but not shark skin, whites from the early 1960s. (sorry to hijack the thread from RD/OS). BTW, I'm wearing an RD3 crow in this picture...before I "swapped rates".

-dan

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Edited by dpcsdan, 30 June 2010 - 08:00 AM.


#11 sigsaye

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 09:52 AM

Oh boy, shark skin whites! Really looked sharp on a slim sailor.

Much more rare than tailor-made dress blues.

Here's my tailored, but not shark skin, whites from the early 1960s. (sorry to hijack the thread from RD/OS). BTW, I'm wearing an RD3 crow in this picture...before I "swapped rates".

-dan

Dan, what's the mark on your sleeve below the UIM?

Steve

#12 67Rally

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 10:05 AM

Oh boy, shark skin whites! Really looked sharp on a slim sailor.

Much more rare than tailor-made dress blues.

Here's my tailored, but not shark skin, whites from the early 1960s. (sorry to hijack the thread from RD/OS). BTW, I'm wearing an RD3 crow in this picture...before I "swapped rates".

-dan


Hijack away! I'd love to see a color photo of a sharkskin uniform. Anyone have one to share?

#13 dpcsdan

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 10:39 AM

Dan, what's the mark on your sleeve below the UIM?

Steve

Firefighter assistant. (Maltese Cross)

Graduate of advanced firefighting school in those days.

They didn't normally send Radarmen to advanced firefighting school, but I reported to the naval base for shipboard duty while my ship was at sea. They noticed I'd attended basic firefighting school and since an advanced class was starting the following Monday they sent me to the class since they couldn't send me to mess duty (I was a PO).

-dan

Edited by dpcsdan, 30 June 2010 - 10:43 AM.


#14 67Rally

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 10:54 AM

Firefighter assistant. (Maltese Cross)

Graduate of advanced firefighting school in those days.

They didn't normally send Radarmen to advanced firefighting school, but I reported to the naval base for shipboard duty while my ship was at sea. They noticed I'd attended basic firefighting school and since an advanced class was starting the following Monday they sent me to the class since they couldn't send me to mess duty (I was a PO).

-dan


Dan,

I too went to several firefighting schools as well as the damage-control team trainers. I also graduated from the rescue swimmer school at 32nd street.

#15 dpcsdan

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 11:35 AM

Dan,

I too went to several firefighting schools as well as the damage-control team trainers. I also graduated from the rescue swimmer school at 32nd street.

Interesting assignments for an OS.
How'd you like San Diego?
-dan

#16 67Rally

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 11:45 AM

Interesting assignments for an OS.
How'd you like San Diego?
-dan


I enjoyed San Diego - the weather is fantastic and consistent. Aside from the gang violence and my car getting broken into on a regular basis, it is a good city. I had applied (my application was accepted) for the SDPD in the last two months of my first enlistment. I instead, extended for the cruise of a lifetime (5 months touring Australia and NZ with the Missouri) only to be directed to the PG to help with the crisis in the "sandy bathtub." I re-enlisted for 6 years and transferred to the Puget Sound region finishing my 10 years in Seattle (at Sand Point).

I was a non-designated striker when I went through those schools, btw. I was the ship's rescue swimmer during flight ops until I struck for OS. No more repair lockers and helm/lookout watches for me. I first struck for AW and was denied since the command didn't want to cough up my billet (or so I was told) and pay to send me to AW "A" school.

#17 dpcsdan

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 12:11 PM

I enjoyed San Diego - the weather is fantastic and consistent. Aside from the gang violence and my car getting broken into on a regular basis, it is a good city. I had applied (my application was accepted) for the SDPD in the last two months of my first enlistment. I instead, extended for the cruise of a lifetime (5 months touring Australia and NZ with the Missouri) only to be directed to the PG to help with the crisis in the "sandy bathtub." I re-enlisted for 6 years and transferred to the Puget Sound region finishing my 10 years in Seattle (at Sand Point).

I was a non-designated striker when I went through those schools, btw. I was the ship's rescue swimmer during flight ops until I struck for OS. No more repair lockers and helm/lookout watches for me. I first struck for AW and was denied since the command didn't want to cough up my billet (or so I was told) and pay to send me to AW "A" school.

Nice career.
I made a full South American cruise as an RD3. The cruise was the annual UNITAS cruise for the USN.
I considered swapping from RD to AW, but swapped to DP.
-dan

#18 sigsaye

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 12:18 PM

Firefighter assistant. (Maltese Cross)

Graduate of advanced firefighting school in those days.

They didn't normally send Radarmen to advanced firefighting school, but I reported to the naval base for shipboard duty while my ship was at sea. They noticed I'd attended basic firefighting school and since an advanced class was starting the following Monday they sent me to the class since they couldn't send me to mess duty (I was a PO).

-dan

Dan, I was thinking that's what that mark was, just couldn't see it all that clear. I miss all those marks, I thought they were cool. My first three ships were out of Sandiego, my fourth started there and went to Japan. I was actually born there and lived there in the '59-60s while my Father was in the Navy. It was a great town then, nobody knew it was there but the Navy.

Steve

#19 67Rally

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 04:44 PM

Nice career.
I made a full South American cruise as an RD3. The cruise was the annual UNITAS cruise for the USN.
I considered swapping from RD to AW, but swapped to DP.
-dan


UNITAS cruises sound like a blast. We had a few Atlantic Fleet sailors who reminisced about them. I would have loved a South American cruise.

The closest we got was when we first left P-Goula tp San Diego via the Panama Canal. We were shadowed by many flights of Bear-D flights from Cuba as we made our way through the Caribbean. We did get to have some in-port time in Panama City before heading north to San Dog.

#20 sigsaye

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 06:05 PM

Oh boy, shark skin whites! Really looked sharp on a slim sailor.

Much more rare than tailor-made dress blues.

Here's my tailored, but not shark skin, whites from the early 1960s. (sorry to hijack the thread from RD/OS). BTW, I'm wearing an RD3 crow in this picture...before I "swapped rates".

-dan

Yeah, and collectors wonder why all the uniforms are so small!


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