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Pre 1900 pattern EGA???


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#1 Bob Hudson

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 08:07 PM

One of our forum members has a thread showing different items found in a recent flea market prowl: http://www.usmilitar...?showtopic=7882

Among the items is this EGA, which I had thought was 1914-22 series, but someone else says is a late 1875 pattern. This is one of those areas where I'd love to learn what sets one apart from the other.

Here's the piece:

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Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 29 August 2007 - 10:55 AM.


#2 bobgee

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 07:08 AM

Very nice pictures of a M1875 type insignia. I believe this piece is dated to circa 1897 - 1904. It is part of the evolution of this design which culminated with this brass screw-post badge for wear on the enlisted kepi. The badge design is often found in a stamped nickel-plated variety with double prong wire pins, as worn on a plate on the enlisted shako 1876-1892; the enlisted dress shoulder knots 1892-1904 and in a gilt finish worn on the kepi until replaced by the heavy struck screw-post variation shown here. The primary differences between this badge and later M1916 pieces can be found in the design of the eagle. This being said, a quite similar design encompassing this type of eagle appeared in 1920.

There are many questions about USMC eagle, globe and anchor insignia asked and answered in the EGA forum. It is a work in progress and more is being added on a regular basis. Check it out.
Semper Fi.........Bob

#3 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 08:30 AM

Bob is quite correct, this version may have preceded the date he indicates by as much as 5 years. While not specifically covered in Driscoll's work, this emblem was likely a impromptu precursor to the "guilders brass" introduction of 1900. Furthermore, this emblem is of identical dimensions of those specified for Officers in the 1892 uniform reg's. Several "issues" surrounded the thinly stamped pieces associated with field wear of 1892 emblems. Principally the problems of the soldered prongs and their obvious limitations. After a few instances of removal from the cap for cleaning the prongs were simply worn-out or broke.

Sadly, until some evidence is produced, we may never know the actual date of its inception. It is my belief, those who sold private purchase caps in that period simply had these pieces made to go with their caps, realizing the need for an emblem of more durability. However this is merely conjecture based upon the reports of other collectors whom collect period uniform.

This emblem has been identified thru photo's and period collections with provenance as having been present on kepi's, pillbox, undress cap's of the 1890's. And finally, this design (based on the 1875 emblem) continued in use with changes in the eagle's configuration until 1920 at which time the rhumb/agonic line was discontinued from further use.

#4 Bob Hudson

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 08:51 AM

Well, he paid $10 for it at a flea market... what's the real worth of one of these?

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 29 August 2007 - 10:57 AM.


#5 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 09:26 AM

In July 07, one would expect to see this go at auction in the $75-$125 range. That price will go up on down depending on how many are seeking the model a the moment and the time of the year.

#6 GLM *Deceased*

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 09:59 AM

This emblem is mistaken for the M1914-22 pattern all the time, but when compared side by side, you can really see some major differences, especially in the head and wing feather details. Here they are side by side.

While $10 is a very good price to pay for this emblem, I personally believe that even in 2007, the over inflated eBay prices of $75 - $125 or more are on the silly side. I think one of the reasons they reach these high prices is because of the confusion among newer collectors with these and the M1914-22's and their connection to WWI, Belleau Woods, etc.. While this pattern and the M1914-22's aren't rare or even scarce, they seem to sell very well on eBay and on-line militaria sites. I find them regularly at gun shows, flea markets, antique shows and malls in the $20-$30 range and have even passed on some at these prices because of poor condition.

Gary

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Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 29 August 2007 - 10:57 AM.


#7 gatormeat

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 03:44 PM

ASMIC's TRADING POST has great article on the MYSTERY OF THE RHOMBUS LINE...diagonal line on the globe.

#8 Got da Penny

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 05:33 PM

Thanks to everyone for shedding more light on this emblem.

I have always wanted one, just never thought i would see one at a flea market.

I must be "missing" these at the gun shows -- JAG/SOS -- as i have not seen any the last few years that i have gone. maybe i'll look harder next show.. :D

Thanks again ADMIN and all for your answers.

Carey

#9 GLM *Deceased*

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 12:58 PM

Carey,

A suggestion! When you're out junking or rooting, always take something that has an EGA on it, like a ring, cap, t-shirt or even carry an emblem in your pocket to show them what you're looking for. You'd be surprised at how many people that work in antique malls, mom & pop junk stores, places like that don't know what you're talking about when you say Marine Corps emblem or Eagle, Globe and Anchor...until you show them what you're looking for. I've scored some very nice older EGA's by holding my personal Marine Corps ring out to them and asking if they have anything that looks like the emblem on my ring. It isn't just here in Colorado either, but all over the country when we travel.

Good hunting!

Gary

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Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 29 August 2007 - 10:58 AM.


#10 usmcski

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 12:11 AM

Greetings All,

This EGA looks legit to me, what's the going rate on an emblem of this type/age? (where ya at, Brig?)

Any help would be appreciated, I've perused the Forum and it looks like the most recent "For Sale" items are from several months/a couple years ago...

Thanks in advance for any help!

Semper,

Ski

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#11 shrapneldude

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 12:27 AM

Looks good to me.
I try not to pay more than $50 for them when they pop up, but sometimes they go high on eBay. $75-80ish

#12 usmcski

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 12:32 AM

That was quick! This one's going for $119 shipped.....think I'll pass on it.

Thanks Dan!

Semper,

Ski

#13 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 05:45 AM

Over the past months, this specific emblem, has been selling on ebay from the $90 - 130. range. Its missing the washer, correct period roller, nice patina. Would like to see a closer view of the screw post, to make sure its not been replaced, just can't tell from that pic.

#14 penobscottrader

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 05:07 PM

I picked these two EGAs up at a antique store this past weekend. Both are large size missing the screw on plates / washers. I'm assuming they are early as they are different from the hundreds of WWII ones I've seen on hats over the years at flea markets and antique stores. One is marked "Made in England". What are they and are they worth anything? Like worthwhile to be put on eBay. Many thanks!
 

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Edited by Brig, 14 May 2014 - 06:02 PM.


#15 penobscottrader

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 05:08 PM

This one is marked "Made in England" on the back.

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Edited by Brig, 14 May 2014 - 06:03 PM.


#16 penobscottrader

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 05:08 PM

.

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Edited by Brig, 14 May 2014 - 06:03 PM.


#17 Bob Hudson

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 05:15 PM

I think the Made In England one is a pre-WWI pattern: http://www.usmilitar...showtopic=82889

#18 usmcaviator

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 07:41 PM

Two enlisted service hat devices. The first I call the "thin wing" variation, it is a version of the 1876 EGA, but yours dates from around 1900 and was worn into the late 1910's. It is tough to find one marked "Made in England". When marked, these command a little more than the normal $75-100 price tag, more like $150-175. The second is a rather common 1920's piece and can be had for about $40-50 if the day is right.

S/F,
Mike

#19 PhotoMarine

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 10:29 PM

I have been through the reference section and have seen examples of this type of bird but I am unsure of it's age . Late 1890's to 1900 ??? Can it really be that old.

Also been through the fake and fantasy threads posted, and I'm kinda doubting I'd been lucky enough to find a genuine EGA of this type.

What say you guys ?????


M1900.jpg

Edited by PhotoMarine, 23 April 2011 - 10:41 PM.


#20 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 05:25 AM

It certainly is the real deal, a circa 1897 - 1904 emblem (and seen on career Marines well after that period). Here is a fine thread in ref. sec. on this example: http://www.usmilitar...?showtopic=7904

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 24 April 2011 - 05:26 AM.


#21 PhotoMarine

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 06:43 AM

It certainly is the real deal, a circa 1897 - 1904 emblem (and seen on career Marines well after that period). Here is a fine thread in ref. sec. on this example: http://www.usmilitar...?showtopic=7904




THANK YOU Sir, I had total missed that tread, very helpful indeed. This EGA reference section is better than the books I have on the subject.

#22 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 11:05 AM

Fellow forum members:

You are in the Marine Corps EGA reference section. This area is were posts from the Marine Corps, USMC EGA discussion section are moved for permanent retention and education about the history of the Eagle, Globe and Anchor. As time moves forward there maybe additional information the EGA Moderators wish to add or will add to this specific post. We ask for your input as well.

We encourage further comments about this post and its content. In order to do so, you will need to start a new post in the USMC EGA discussion area which is listed in the main page under insignia. And as needed we will be pleased to move any new and or valued information that is derived from your post (and subsequent comments) into this reference area as its own standing post.

Please be advised; posting and or editing is restricted on Eagle, Globe and Anchor emblem threads; to moderator's and forum staff.


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