When the Family comes calling.........

[Dave]

I don't know if the paper is making Perko out to be an evil person intentionally, but it really does sound like he's trying to make some bucks off this and he also sounds like a sore loser... he was already offered $1000 for the group from someone wanting to use it for their home established in honor of the veteran, and I think that's pretty fair and an honorable place for it to go. Perko balked at that, and then is quoted in the paper in an earlier article saying that he might just "give them away..."

 

I think very few of us, if we were in the same situation, would pass up a "fair" offer to place the group where it can properly recognize the Marine's service...and not in a back room in the used furniture store...

 

Dave

[MWalsh]

I agree, he was offered what was maybe, arguably a fair amount for it, an amount that I now suspect he wishes he'd have taken, in light of all his bad press! Funny though, that he is to be expected to give it all up. Perhaps his feeling has been that you buy it ALL - everything! Why would he want to be stuck with the used furniture & linen while being forced to sell back or give back the one portion of the storage shed that truly had any value?

 

I just hate to see those that collect such things on the edge of being villified... My concern is that someone sees something I have of a family member of theirs, they want it for nothing or far below market, then I / we get tagged as the bad guy when they do not get what they want...

 

For all we know, in this Chicago area case, maybe the guy wanting it all back now, was the same guy who got the storage shed bills & decided nothing in the shed was worth paying the bills for, and now HE is worried about the bad press HE would get if word got out that what realyl happened was that HE walked away from the stuff in the first place! So play the "my poor family" card as an offense to fend off the real story, which may very well be that he was the one who basically allowed the stuff to get sold in the first place...

 

Everything I write is mainly speculation, but again, its the path that this could take that makes me nervous, like a 48 Hours story on how heartless military collectors & dealers are selling the valor & heritage of America's war dead on sites like U.S. Militaria Forum... Like I said, makes me nervous...

 

MW

[kjones5452]

I think that if the actual truth be known, it would be one far cry from the way it's being reported.

[Dave]

I think that if the actual truth be known, it would be one far cry from the way it's being reported.

 

That's probably true. However, the Perko guy sure isn't helping his own case...name a price, sell the group, and move on. At this point, no one is asking for the group back for free...but where Perko is shooting himself in the foot is not coming out and stating a price...he could easily say "I want $2000 for it" and let it go at that. Some people will probably villianize him, but not as many that will want to tar and feather him now for being indecisive and threatening...

[MWalsh]

That's probably true. However, the Perko guy sure isn't helping his own case...name a price, sell the group, and move on. At this point, no one is asking for the group back for free...but where Perko is shooting himself in the foot is not coming out and stating a price...he could easily say "I want $2000 for it" and let it go at that. Some people will probably villianize him, but not as many that will want to tar and feather him now for being indecisive and threatening...

 

 

Very true Dave, very true!

[tom2001]

And here's the resolution to the story:

 

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/12...-to-family.html

[Sgt_Rock_EasyCo]

This is a good topic.

 

I spent some time putting all of my own personal items together. I replaced the missing patches, decorations on the class a's and placed the remaining field uniforms in a footlocker. I'm sure that it has some value now but in 20 years it will be quite collectible I suspect. If my family doesn't take care of it and it ends up in the hands of anyone like I see on this forum then that's where it should stay.

 

I watched an Aunt separate her Husband's WWII Grouping to three sheets in the wind. In trying to be equitable to her Children she gave pieces and parts away to them. They gave them to their kids and now nobody has anything traceable. He had a German Swastika Flag, German Uniform, Luger in holster complete, uniforms, garrison caps, foot locker, insignia etc..all gone. The opportunity for her to give the items to me as a group passed so now there's nothing left.

 

So if my Wife gives my stuff away piecemeal and nobody knows or cares then down the line some obscure relative has no right to lay claim to it. As a collector and veteran I know that if my stuff means something to my family then they will covet it right away. If they don't and end up asking, "What ever happened to Dad's Army stuff?" "Wasn't he in the war?", then they didn't know me very well and have no interest in my stuff. Any benign or disinterest of this sort doesn't deserve the right to lay a claim.

 

Theft is one thing.

 

Disinterest is another.

 

I'll side with collectors over emotion anyday.

 

Rock

[tom2001]

D,

I agree with 100%.

This is an example of greed in the worst way.......for profit from a grieving family.

Obviously this person is not a collector, but a picker. As such, he is view differently by those of us in the collecting community. But for the general population, he is associated with collecting which gives us a bad name.

I understand, a picker has to make a living, but at what price. For us, a fair price, but not an "exorbitant" price. Inevitable, his actions will hurt collectors, as well as pickers.

 

Boy, I take a different view here. What the picker did is no different than what any of us "collectors" would have done.

 

The storage unit owner/manager has a lot of legal hoops to jump through before they can auction off the contents of a storage unit. Someone in the family must have seen a bill, or a legal notice.

 

So the picker buys the contents of the storage unit in 2003, and nobody comes a calling until 2010? Until the picker gets offered $1000 plus Bears tickets for the lot?

 

And what exactly is a posthumous group from Afghanistan worth, anyhow? I've never seen one for sale, but I don't think a price in the 4 figures would be out of line.

 

The picker bought the contents of the storage space fair and square. He shouldn't be shamed into returning the items in the court of public opinion.

[36-tex]

It seems to me that Mr. Perko is sadly like a growing number of people in this hobby. We get so caught up in the possible value of an item, that we forget why we should be collecting this stuff in the first place. I have seen it happen here. Someone buys an item for penny's and then wants to sell it for an obscene amount of money. Christ, sell it and at least get your money back (Good Karma!), then move on. People know I like 36th stuff, so what happens? Someone finds a nice piece and then offers it to me for crazy amounts. How about the person who buys something from you and resales it for more? Good for them, but why do you need to tell me about it? I AM A COLLECTOR AND A PRESERVER! VALUE IS RELATIVE AND THIS IS NOT A COMPETITION, BUT A HOBBY!

I hope Mr. Perko does return it to the family AND THAT HE GETS HIS MONEY BACK! That would be the right thing for him and the family to do.

 

My rant is over!

[vintageproductions]

Boy, I take a different view here. What the picker did is no different than what any of us "collectors" would have done.

 

The storage unit owner/manager has a lot of legal hoops to jump through before they can auction off the contents of a storage unit. Someone in the family must have seen a bill, or a legal notice.

 

So the picker buys the contents of the storage unit in 2003, and nobody comes a calling until 2010? Until the picker gets offered $1000 plus Bears tickets for the lot?

 

And what exactly is a posthumous group from Afghanistan worth, anyhow? I've never seen one for sale, but I don't think a price in the 4 figures would be out of line.

 

The picker bought the contents of the storage space fair and square. He shouldn't be shamed into returning the items in the court of public opinion.

 

Exactly.

I don't know the laws in Illinois but here in California, the storage space renter is contacted numerous times, via phone calls, registered letters, notices printed in the newspaper, etc. The time line is usually between four and six months before the items can be sold.

I think a lot of people reading this are letting emotions win over common sense. The storage space buyer did nothing wrong, it was the family who didn't take care of their responsibilities.

[Bob Hudson]

his actions will hurt collectors, as well as pickers.

 

Actually I expect it will have the opposite effect as people read that and wonder if they can get some money for grandpa's old Army stuff.

[Dave]

I just combined the two threads about the Afghanistan KIA group into this thread. No need to post opinions in both places! :thumbsup:

[Dave]

So it looks like he gave the items back to the family. Interesting. So much for him getting money from it...I guess he lost out on that one. Also interesting that in a previous article he claimed that he had spent "between $1000 and $5000" on the storage unit. Turns out he only spent $1500 for it. Bad memory, I guess?

[Jack's Son]

Boy, I take a different view here. What the picker did is no different than what any of us "collectors" would have done...........

.....The picker bought the contents of the storage space fair and square. He shouldn't be shamed into returning the items in the court of public opinion.

Tom,

I believe that there is a difference between a picker and a collector. Furthermore, I believe there is a difference in collecting items that are 50 + years old after the fact, vs. items that have barely "cooled off" after a persons death.

I have given up collecting posthumously awarded medals from the Vietnam war era. Through researching a group, I quickly learned how fresh the memories are to people who were directly or indirectly associated with individuals lost in that war.

 

The situation in question was handled poorly from the beginning.

Yes, the picker has every right to own and defend his right to the property he paid for. He should be reimbursed for the property, but not in the public forum. This man stood a snowflakes chance in h3ll of staying out of the spotlight of negative public opinion. Had the situation been handled properly, we would never have known of it.

It is exactly this kind of public thrashing that lead the Forum Administration to remove a relatives post from this thread.

 

If this person had quietly gone about transferring ownership of these items to whomever, asked a reasonable price for reimbursement, or just politely refused, this would not have ended as it has.

 

These are the reasons I respectfully disagree with your take on my earlier comments.

[Edward T.]

Here's a sad but interesting story from today's Chicago Tribune

 

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/11...lled-in-02.html

 

snippet:

 

An ugly battle has broken out between the family of the first U.S. servicewoman to die in the Afghanistan war and a Northwest Indiana used-furniture dealer who bought her personal effects from a storage company four years ago.

 

Marine Sgt. Jeannette Winters' family wants back her funeral flag, the dog tags that were on her closed casket, and her medals, military records and other memorabilia that Mark Perko says he bought after payments on the storage locker were missed.

 

Reminds me of the media attention Blagojevich got when his storage unit got put for sale (with it several prized items from campaigns as well as personal documents, etc). Of course I would never equate the items of a hero with that of a politician and hope it works out for both the buyer and the family.

[pchepurko]

This is a very interesting thread. I have only once been contacted by a family member when I posted pictures of a post-war shipping crate. I offered it back to the family at my cost and never heard back. On the other hand I always do as much research on any named item that I buy. It is always my goal to contact the next of kin to get a picture and more information. In one case I bought a WWII navy officers cap from a dealer in California and the next of kin lived one town over from me. I contacted him and he was very surprised. When I offered the cap to him at the price I paid he was very happy since he did not expect it. In another case I have WWI army uniform and contacted the officer's daughter. She was really pleased to hear from me and when I met with her she gave me all kinds of additional stuff.

 

As I said it is always my goal to contact the family. I try to feel out if they have any interest in the item or if they just don't care. If they do care I do offer it back at the price I paid for it. I am not talking about a lot of money here since I do not buy expensive groups. Where appropriate I offer it back because for me it is the right thing to do. I would imagine that at some point I will get burned and see the item on ebay, but that is just the way it goes when yuo try to do the right thing.

[MAW]

My random observations....

 

1.) If the family cared about this stuff, why was it all in a storage locker? That's one step above throwing it in the barn out back.

 

2.) They had to receive notification that they were going to lose the storage locker. It had to take a while for that process to happen. Months, I would guess. Why not either pay for it, OR GO GET THE IMPORTANT STUFF if you need it.

 

2.) If the buyer tried to contact the family and got no response, what else are you supposed to do? He wasn't obligated to contact them at all to begin with.

 

3.) Once they contacted him, it would have been nice of him to either set a price or give the stuff back. Make a decision for heaven's sake. Letting it drag on made the whole thing a circus.

 

4.) I'm glad that the family got the stuff back........but who's to say it doesn't go back into a storage locker or they divide it up piecemeal in a year or two? The buyer was keeping it all as a true archive and testament to her service. The family may or may not do the same.

[willysmb44]

Boy, I take a different view here. What the picker did is no different than what any of us "collectors" would have done.

The storage unit owner/manager has a lot of legal hoops to jump through before they can auction off the contents of a storage unit. Someone in the family must have seen a bill, or a legal notice.

So the picker buys the contents of the storage unit in 2003, and nobody comes a calling until 2010? Until the picker gets offered $1000 plus Bears tickets for the lot?

And what exactly is a posthumous group from Afghanistan worth, anyhow? I've never seen one for sale, but I don't think a price in the 4 figures would be out of line.

The picker bought the contents of the storage space fair and square. He shouldn't be shamed into returning the items in the court of public opinion.

I agree 100%. If something is legally obtained, IT’S YOURS, to do whatever the heck you want to do with, and that’s the end of that. There’s a sense of entitlement with this kind of thing that has always baffled me. Regardless of what an item it or what it stands for, it’s still just an item to be bought, sold, kept or disposed of in any manner the owner sees fit.

This whole thread reminds me of a pal who once posted some German stuff on a forum and said a US vet had given it to him (which is true, I was with him when it happened). It was some really good and valuable stuff, too. So he gets a random e-mail later from someone claiming to be the grandson of that vet. Problem was, my pal wasn’t born yesterday so he asked details on what vet this guy was talking about. The other guy wouldn’t name who his grandfather was, no doubt because he didn’t know what name to use as this posts didn’t mention a name for said vet. My friend told him to go pound sand. Threats of legal actions were answered with, “bring it on.” Nothing else was heard from the guy.

[FriscoHare]

I find this topic absolutely fascinating.

 

Personally, I've posted a few names of my ID'd items... and had two people contact me. One person wanted to reunite my bullion patch with the rest of the soldier's items that he owned. He offered me a good deal and I gave him the patch.

 

The other case involved an ID'd uniform I had. The person said that they knew so and so. After some discussion, they asked me what price I was willing to sell it for. I told them how much I paid for it, but since it was going to a good home, I asked them to make an offer. I waited, am still waiting, and haven't received a reply.

 

(As an aside, is it ok to "silently deny" an offer?)

 

Lately, I thought about posting some of my ID'd uniforms here on the forum and sharing the soldier's history with everyone. However, after reading this topic, I fear people will contact me and ask to give/sell them the piece saying that they were related to the soldier, knew the soldier, or that they were the soldier's mother-side second cousin's wife's great-aunt... twice removed. Now, I'll try to share the soldier's histories, but I won't put their names up.

 

I would be ok selling items to family members of the soldier, but at market price + the additional fees I paid NPRC to get more information AND proof that they are a family member.

 

However, I would sell it to them on the condition that they would take care of the piece, cherish it for what it is truly worth, and not sell it just to profit. Yes, I know there is no way I can control the buyer once the piece is in their hands, but agreeing to these conditions can help me sleep better at night.

 

Heck, if they can cherish it more than I can, why not? If they can't, I'll just keep it.

[Jack's Son]

(As an aside, is it ok to "silently deny" an offer?

Sean,

In a word.........NO!

It may be easier for the unscrupulous scammer, or greedy (so called) family member, but an honest person would not hesitate to politely decline your offer.

 

This of course is MHO

[chris3bs]

I find this topic absolutely fascinating.

 

Personally, I've posted a few names of my ID'd items... and had two people contact me. One person wanted to reunite my bullion patch with the rest of the soldier's items that he owned. He offered me a good deal and I gave him the patch.

 

The other case involved an ID'd uniform I had. The person said that they knew so and so. After some discussion, they asked me what price I was willing to sell it for. I told them how much I paid for it, but since it was going to a good home, I asked them to make an offer. I waited, am still waiting, and haven't received a reply.

 

(As an aside, is it ok to "silently deny" an offer?)

 

Lately, I thought about posting some of my ID'd uniforms here on the forum and sharing the soldier's history with everyone. However, after reading this topic, I fear people will contact me and ask to give/sell them the piece saying that they were related to the soldier, knew the soldier, or that they were the soldier's mother-side second cousin's wife's great-aunt... twice removed. Now, I'll try to share the soldier's histories, but I won't put their names up.

 

I would be ok selling items to family members of the soldier, but at market price + the additional fees I paid NPRC to get more information AND proof that they are a family member.

 

However, I would sell it to them on the condition that they would take care of the piece, cherish it for what it is truly worth, and not sell it just to profit. Yes, I know there is no way I can control the buyer once the piece is in their hands, but agreeing to these conditions can help me sleep better at night.

 

Heck, if they can cherish it more than I can, why not? If they can't, I'll just keep it.

I have made the decision over the years once I give or sell an item - the item is whom I offer it to. I have no control nor any responsibility when it is out of my possession. I may say "I wished I had" - but that was my decision. I have given things to my kids. They know that I may want them to keep it in the family however it is the choosing of my child(ren) what to do with. I believe once it is out of our hands - it is out of our control. We just try and put it back together as collectors the best we can.

[ssggates]

I've posted items on here with names and histories and I plan on posting more. My goal in collecting is not to hoard items and keep them safely tucked away, taking them out now and then to admire them in secret. No, on the contrary I collect things specifically to honor the veterans who originally owned them and I choose to do that by posting here for fellow collectors and soon to display items in the small museum I'm in charge of at our HQ. If others choose not to post names and even to keep their items secret that's their business and they have every right and good reason to do so, it's just not for me. That being said, I don't care one bit or lose any sleep at all about people contacting me, they are more than welcome. I have no moral dilemna that I can identify, the items are legally mine. If I want to sell or give them away I will, and if I don't I won't. I politely decline and let them know they are welcome to come by and take a look at their family member's former possessions any time they want.

[Sabrejet]

I was contacted out of the blue by an individual who had seen a named WW2 flight bag I'd posted on the forum....she actually joined the forum in order to contact me! She claimed it belonged to her late grandpa who had recently passed away in a retirement village. Said she had come upon it by accident whilst surfing the net! I googled said village and found it does exist but I could find no reference to the alleged grandfather as having been a resident. I replied and politely requested a little more info, but received no response thereafter. Strange, but true!

 

Sabrejet :think:

[BigJohn#3RD]

Shortly after this subject thread was started, I was contacted by a family member who had not know about the existence of his Grandfather's medals below is the thread of what transpired with the grandson.

 

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...c=97735&hl=

 

The right thing is not always easey to do, it was painful because I liked the group but I think I did the right thing.

Regards,

John

[Rakkasan187]

Last year I posted some pictures of a South Korean Wave Pattern uniform shirt that belonged to a US Special Forces Soldier. The nametape was on the uniform, and fellow forum members were able to find actual photos of this person wearing the same pattern shirt. Nothing else was ever mentioned about this shirt until about a month ago. As I was looking at my PM's I noticed a new member had visited my profile. That new member just happened to have the last name of the Shirt in question. The name is not a common one at all. This raised a red flag within me. The person has not attempted to contact me, nor have I seen this person post on the Forum. It may have been a relative of the person that I have the named shirt of, or it could have been the person himself, or another thought that has been brought up, is that a person very very interested in this shirt may be posing to see if I would be reluctant enough or gullible enough to sell it to this person.

 

Although this circumstance is very much different than the situation with the KIA belongings, I would be very suspicious/reluctant to let this uniform go. After all I found it at a second hand store, and I would need more proof than a new member taking the name of the name tape on the uniform to believe that it may belong to this person or a relative..

 

It raises some questions about peoples morals and ethics...

 

Leigh...