31 replies to this topic

[2ad82recon]

Guys can you help identify and date one of my M1 steel helmet liners

it has the CAPAC cross markings with 51 and 52 each side of the "arms"
of the cross

Under the CAPAC it has the number 29

above the CAPAC mark is the W and O of Westinghouse ???

and under this symbol is the number 53

so what does this all signify please guys

Regards

Lloyd

[earlymb]

I believe this is a WWII-made Westinghouse liner, re-webbed in the 1950's by CAPAC. I also have one. I think the numbers indicate molds.

Greetz

David

[kklinejr]

Without a photo to see, this sounds like a Korean war era CAPAC (division of Westinghouse). The 51-52 on this sides of the CAPAC represent the dates the mold tooling for the liner was done (1951 - 1952), so it could be slightly newer. The other marks sound like various mold numbers common to post war CAPACs.

[2ad82recon]

Thanks guys.....for the quick replies.So...how can you positively tell a correct WW2 liner from a post Ww2 one ?

Regards

Lloyd

Edited by Bugme, 24 August 2009 - 06:40 AM.

[kklinejr]

For me, I can tell a post-war liner just because I have a few reference books on them and actively seek them out. For those that collect only WWII liner and lids, there are many clues in the webbing, the washers used, and maker marks. I'm sure a few guys on here can definitely go into more details about WWII liners.

When I look for post-war liners (I want the ones that most people toss away ), I look at maker marks, webbing style, front hole or no front hole, tag labels (Micarta style liners), etc. Like anything, I suppose once you've seen a few you just get a knack for them.

As far as dating helmet rigs, thats where it all comes down to putting pieces of the puzzle together. For example, I have a front seam, swivel bale Schleuter pot (WWII) that has OD painted chinstrap clips (Korea) and light green sandgrit paint (Vietnam). The liner in it was a 1969 model- so, although it was originally a WWII pot, that was then used during the Korean War period, the rig is actually 'Nam era.

The fun is in the detective work, I suppose.

[earlymb]

Thanks guys.....for the quick replies.So...how can you positively tell a correct WW2 liner from a post Ww2 one ?
Regards

Lloyd

Check the pic below for liner markings. A khaki webbing suspension should be OK, although I have seen post-WWII khaki re-webbed liners from the Danish army. Dutch and Belgian 1950's liners are nearly identical to WWII US ones, but have green webbing and lack these stampings in the crown.

Greetz

David

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Edited by Bugme, 24 August 2009 - 06:40 AM.

[2ad82recon]

Thankyou David for the liner markings that helps a great deal...so how can you tell from the 467A heat code that my shell is a Mc Cord ?

All the very best

Lloyd

[earlymb]

Because it is not marked. Of the 22 million M1 helmet shells produced in WWII around 20 million were made by McCord (these were unmarked except the heatnumber), and around 2 million by Schlueter (these were marked with a stamped 'S' near the heatnumber). These 2 companies were the only producers of M1 helmet shells in WWII. So Schlueter-made shells are much rarer than McCord ones, but don't seem to fetch a much higher value for this. About 3 years ago I found a batch of 13 mint flex bale khaki chinstraps Schlueter shells, all still in their factory cardboard wrapper with their original cork-mixed paint in new condition on a scapyard in the US. I kept a few and sold off the rest. If there is interest I will post some pics of one of them.

Greetz

David

[WVUM1shooter]

Found this picture posted on the Jmurray helmet restoration website. I am sure most of you have already seen it but I felt it may be a good idea to share it.
Hope i don't get sued.

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[Bugme]

Nice posting of the markings. Of course those would be the insignia for manufacturers of the the "High Pressure" liners. For the "Low Pressure" liner you would look for a yellow "SC" or a white "HR" stamped in the crown. The "SC" is a St. Clair and the "HR" is a Hood Rubber Co.

[Blake_E]

Hi all, just one from leftfield here that i've always pondered. Can you date the liners at all? Also, what does the letter and number above the westinghouse logo represent?

[Hill 84]

Hi all, just one from leftfield here that i've always pondered. Can you date the liners at all? Also, what does the letter and number above the westinghouse logo represent?

Yes, WW2 Liners can be approximately dated thanks to their raw components type like the washers. The numbers and/or letters around the manufacturer logo have nothing to do with the manufacture date it is for molds identification.

Hope this will help,

Hill 84

[Blake_E]

Thanks Hill 84, both posts coming in handy there

[Lt. Hutch]

My liner has just a W and 17. It seems that my liner and its manufacturer never existed! It seems that there are no records of this stamping anywhere. Here is a photo of what I'm talking about.

[Got da Penny]

Heres one more ...

a Firestone made liner over an Inland liner mold.

Edited by Got da Penny, 15 August 2008 - 01:41 PM.

[sniperfoot]

hate to crash this thread, but I have a (told it was a M1) helmet liner that I know nothing about (might not even be wwii). It has stamping on the webbing that is smudged and mostly illegible. The webbing is green, and the crown is only marked "US 43". Any ideas about this one?

thanks.

[sgtwamp]

I have a Liner that has the Inland stamp with the Firestone stamp marked over it too. What does that mean?

[Bugme]

I have a Liner that has the Inland stamp with the Firestone stamp marked over it too. What does that mean?

As the war progressed "Inland" stopped production of liners to focus on other areas of the war production effort. Inlands liner molds were then taken over by "Firestone".

Firestone just placed their logo over the top of Inlands logo and continued making the liners under the Firestone name. So if you have a liner with one manufacturers logo over the top of another, the logo on top is then the actual manufacturer. In your case, Firestone made the liner.

[6th marine]

my helmet liner has the samething but on the top of the cross it says 18 it's funny mine has a double stamping

Are all liners marked or am I just too blind to see any on my liner or maybe I still don't know where to look. HELP

[Bugme]

The crown stamps are often very small(Firestone, Westinghouse, etc.) or even very lightly imprinted on the inside top of the liner. Use a flashlight to look and clean out dirt that may have accumulated. If there is still no stamp to be found. You could have a foreign version of the M-1 liner or it could even be a newer liner. If you have a question about the era of the liner, create a new posting with some pictures of your liner. We should be able to help you out there.