Jump to content


Helmet Liner Maker Markings

Started by 2ad82recon , Dec 30 2006 12:08 PM

  • Please log in to reply
31 replies to this topic

#1 2ad82recon

2ad82recon

    Member

  • Members
    • Member ID: 6
  • 918 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Haverhill,Suffolk,UK

Posted 30 December 2006 - 12:08 PM

Guys can you help identify and date one of my M1 steel helmet liners

it has the CAPAC cross markings with 51 and 52 each side of the "arms"
of the cross

Under the CAPAC it has the number 29

above the CAPAC mark is the W and O of Westinghouse ???

and under this symbol is the number 53

so what does this all signify please guys

Regards

Lloyd

#2 earlymb

earlymb
  • Members
    • Member ID: 80
  • 851 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Netherlands

Posted 30 December 2006 - 12:24 PM

I believe this is a WWII-made Westinghouse liner, re-webbed in the 1950's by CAPAC. I also have one. I think the numbers indicate molds.

Greetz ;)

David

#3 kklinejr

kklinejr
  • Members
    • Member ID: 99
  • 2,839 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York, USA

Posted 30 December 2006 - 12:26 PM

Without a photo to see, this sounds like a Korean war era CAPAC (division of Westinghouse). The 51-52 on this sides of the CAPAC represent the dates the mold tooling for the liner was done (1951 - 1952), so it could be slightly newer. The other marks sound like various mold numbers common to post war CAPACs.

#4 2ad82recon

2ad82recon

    Member

  • Members
    • Member ID: 6
  • 918 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Haverhill,Suffolk,UK

Posted 30 December 2006 - 12:34 PM

Thanks guys.....for the quick replies.So...how can you positively tell a correct WW2 liner from a post Ww2 one ?

Regards

Lloyd

Edited by Bugme, 24 August 2009 - 06:40 AM.


#5 kklinejr

kklinejr
  • Members
    • Member ID: 99
  • 2,839 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York, USA

Posted 30 December 2006 - 12:48 PM

For me, I can tell a post-war liner just because I have a few reference books on them and actively seek them out. For those that collect only WWII liner and lids, there are many clues in the webbing, the washers used, and maker marks. I'm sure a few guys on here can definitely go into more details about WWII liners.

When I look for post-war liners (I want the ones that most people toss away :) ), I look at maker marks, webbing style, front hole or no front hole, tag labels (Micarta style liners), etc. Like anything, I suppose once you've seen a few you just get a knack for them.

As far as dating helmet rigs, thats where it all comes down to putting pieces of the puzzle together. For example, I have a front seam, swivel bail Schleuter pot (WWII) that has OD painted chinstrap clips (Korea) and light green sandgrit paint (Vietnam). The liner in it was a 1969 model- so, although it was originally a WWII pot, that was then used during the Korean War period, the rig is actually 'Nam era.

The fun is in the detective work, I suppose.

#6 earlymb

earlymb
  • Members
    • Member ID: 80
  • 851 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Netherlands

Posted 30 December 2006 - 12:49 PM

Thanks guys.....for the quick replies.So...how can you positively tell a correct WW2 liner from a post Ww2 one ?
Regards

Lloyd


Check the pic below for liner markings. A khaki webbing suspension should be OK, although I have seen post-WWII khaki re-webbed liners from the Danish army. Dutch and Belgian 1950's liners are nearly identical to WWII US ones, but have green webbing and lack these stampings in the crown.

Greetz ;)

David

Attached Images

  • linerstamps8vl.jpg

Edited by Bugme, 24 August 2009 - 06:40 AM.


#7 2ad82recon

2ad82recon

    Member

  • Members
    • Member ID: 6
  • 918 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Haverhill,Suffolk,UK

Posted 30 December 2006 - 01:00 PM

Thankyou David for the liner markings that helps a great deal...so how can you tell from the 467A heat code that my shell is a Mc Cord ?

All the very best

Lloyd

#8 earlymb

earlymb
  • Members
    • Member ID: 80
  • 851 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Netherlands

Posted 30 December 2006 - 01:59 PM

Because it is not marked. Of the 22 million M1 helmet shells produced in WWII around 20 million were made by McCord (these were unmarked except the heatnumber), and around 2 million by Schlueter (these were marked with a stamped 'S' near the heatnumber). These 2 companies were the only producers of M1 helmet shells in WWII. So Schlueter-made shells are much rarer than McCord ones, but don't seem to fetch a much higher value for this. About 3 years ago I found a batch of 13 mint flex bail khaki chinstraps Schlueter shells, all still in their factory cardboard wrapper with their original cork-mixed paint in new condition on a scapyard in the US. I kept a few and sold off the rest. If there is interest I will post some pics of one of them.

Greetz ;)

David

#9 WVUM1shooter

WVUM1shooter

    BANNED

  • Banned
    • Member ID: 3,410
  • 138 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 June 2008 - 01:34 PM

Found this picture posted on the Jmurray helmet restoration website. I am sure most of you have already seen it but I felt it may be a good idea to share it.
Hope i don't get sued.

Attached Images

  • Mold_in_Marks.jpg


#10 Bugme

Bugme

    ADMINISTRATOR

  • Administrators
    • Member ID: 1,726
  • 11,545 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wisconsin Shoreline

Posted 22 June 2008 - 01:46 PM

Nice posting of the markings. Of course those would be the insignia for manufacturers of the the "High Pressure" liners. For the "Low Pressure" liner you would look for a yellow "SC" or a white "HR" stamped in the crown. The "SC" is a St. Clair and the "HR" is a Hood Rubber Co.

#11 Blake_E

Blake_E
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,398
  • 1,894 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 July 2008 - 07:54 PM

Hi all, just one from leftfield here that i've always pondered. Can you date the liners at all? Also, what does the letter and number above the westinghouse logo represent?

#12 Hill 84

Hill 84
  • Members
    • Member ID: 2,229
  • 111 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Normandy, France

Posted 18 July 2008 - 01:46 AM

Hi all, just one from leftfield here that i've always pondered. Can you date the liners at all? Also, what does the letter and number above the westinghouse logo represent?


Yes, WW2 Liners can be approximately dated thanks to their raw components type like the washers. The numbers and/or letters around the manufacturer logo have nothing to do with the manufacture date it is for molds identification.

Hope this will help,

Hill 84

#13 Blake_E

Blake_E
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,398
  • 1,894 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 July 2008 - 06:59 AM

Thanks Hill 84, both posts coming in handy there :D

#14 Lt. Hutch

Lt. Hutch
  • New Members
    • Member ID: 3,474
  • 25 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Barre, Vermont

Posted 22 July 2008 - 06:12 PM

helmet_005.JPG

My liner has just a W and 17. It seems that my liner and its manufacturer never existed! It seems that there are no records of this stamping anywhere. Here is a photo of what I'm talking about.

#15 Got da Penny

Got da Penny
  • Members
    • Member ID: 633
  • 4,224 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kentucky USA

Posted 15 August 2008 - 01:40 PM

Heres one more ...

a Firestone made liner over an Inland liner mold.

MVC_009F.JPG

Edited by Got da Penny, 15 August 2008 - 01:41 PM.


#16 sniperfoot

sniperfoot
  • New Members
    • Member ID: 3,796
  • 15 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:where the sun shines and the mosquitos bite

Posted 16 August 2008 - 11:07 AM

hate to crash this thread, but I have a (told it was a M1) helmet liner that I know nothing about (might not even be wwii). It has stamping on the webbing that is smudged and mostly illegible. The webbing is green, and the crown is only marked "US 43". Any ideas about this one?

thanks.

#17 sgtwamp

sgtwamp
  • Members
    • Member ID: 2,638
  • 162 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indiana

Posted 18 August 2008 - 02:32 PM

I have a Liner that has the Inland stamp with the Firestone stamp marked over it too. What does that mean?

#18 Bugme

Bugme

    ADMINISTRATOR

  • Administrators
    • Member ID: 1,726
  • 11,545 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wisconsin Shoreline

Posted 23 August 2008 - 08:22 AM

I have a Liner that has the Inland stamp with the Firestone stamp marked over it too. What does that mean?

As the war progressed "Inland" stopped production of liners to focus on other areas of the war production effort. Inlands liner molds were then taken over by "Firestone".

Firestone just placed their logo over the top of Inlands logo and continued making the liners under the Firestone name. So if you have a liner with one manufacturers logo over the top of another, the logo on top is then the actual manufacturer. In your case, Firestone made the liner.

#19 6th marine

6th marine
  • Members
    • Member ID: 4,018
  • 104 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Clinton Mississippi

Posted 11 October 2008 - 07:19 PM

my helmet liner has the samething but on the top of the cross it says 18 it's funny mine has a double stamping

Are all liners marked or am I just too blind to see any on my liner or maybe I still don't know where to look. HELP

#20 Bugme

Bugme

    ADMINISTRATOR

  • Administrators
    • Member ID: 1,726
  • 11,545 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wisconsin Shoreline

Posted 12 October 2008 - 04:51 AM

The crown stamps are often very small(Firestone, Westinghouse, etc.) or even very lightly imprinted on the inside top of the liner. Use a flashlight to look and clean out dirt that may have accumulated. If there is still no stamp to be found. You could have a foreign version of the M-1 liner or it could even be a newer liner. If you have a question about the era of the liner, create a new posting with some pictures of your liner. We should be able to help you out there.


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


In Memory of Co-Founder GREG MILLS ROBINSON, a.k.a. "Marine-KaBar"
(February 17, 1949 - March 5, 2011)