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Naval officers cocked hat - fore and aft hat


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#1 FW12

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 07:35 PM

I got this US Navy Officer's Cocked hat, also known as a Fore & Aft hat in today, with the original case. This certainly is a cool item. I believe this hat would be for a junior grade officer. The hat was tailored by H.V. Allien & Co, 734 Broadway, New York. What's really great is the metal case in which the hat came in. Its a little scratched, but even the original tissue paper is there. This cap is in mint condition, I doubt the officer ever wore it. Would you folks say my teens-late 20s estimate would be correct as to the age of the hat? I look forward to your comments!


Best,
Beau

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Edited by Beau Wright, 06 July 2007 - 07:53 PM.


#2 FW12

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 07:53 PM

More photos

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#3 KASTAUFFER

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 09:13 PM

They made hats from 1877-1948 . My feelings are it may be Span Am War or earlier.

Kurt

#4 KurtA

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 05:34 AM

Beau-
They wore these right up to WW2. Dating these is difficult. I'd agree with Kurt though, this one just has that "look" of being "earlier" than "later."
Allien was a premier maker of very high quality headgear. So you have a really nice one there.
I don't have any references on these, but I seem to recall the width of the bullion strips being indicative of rank. I know it's not an admiral - they had the bullion strips along the entire length of the top edges. However, I think a junior officer had strips more narrow than those on your hat. So, possibly a Commander or Captain?
I've seen a lot of these hats, but never in the type case you have. It's very unusual. Usually, it's the bigger "box" that also fits the belt and epaulettes.
As you say, definitely a "cool" item!
Kurt

#5 Bob Hudson

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 06:48 AM

Here's one that belonged to US Navy Admiral Admiral Francis John Higginson and is in the collection of the Memorial Hall Museum :

cockedhat.jpeg


The US Navy uniform regulations of 1897 called for:

"SPECIAL FULL DRESS.


To be worn on occasions of special ceremony, and at general muster on the first
Sunday of every month.

For commissioned officers.-- Special full-dress coat, laced trousers, cocked hat, epaulets, sword, and full-dress belt.
"

and

"FULL DRESS.


To be worn on occasions of ceremony, as in making the first visit, in each port, to officers of flag rank.

For commissioned officers.-- Frock coat, laced trousers, cocked hat, epaulets, sword, and full-dress belt.
"

"DRESS.


To he worn on all occasions of ordinary ceremony, in boarding ships of war, in making the first visit in port to commanding officers, on parades of ceremony with enlisted men under arms, and at Sunday inspections, except on the first Sunday in the month.

For commissioned officers.-- Frock coat, plain blue or white trousers, cocked hat, epaulets, sword, and plain leather belt; the coat to be worn completely buttoned.
"


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#6 craig_pickrall

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 06:53 AM

This one is from LIFE Magazine of May 19, 1941.

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#7 FW12

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Posted 08 July 2007 - 06:23 AM

Beau-
They wore these right up to WW2. Dating these is difficult. I'd agree with Kurt though, this one just has that "look" of being "earlier" than "later."
Allien was a premier maker of very high quality headgear. So you have a really nice one there.
I don't have any references on these, but I seem to recall the width of the bullion strips being indicative of rank. I know it's not an admiral - they had the bullion strips along the entire length of the top edges. However, I think a junior officer had strips more narrow than those on your hat. So, possibly a Commander or Captain?
I've seen a lot of these hats, but never in the type case you have. It's very unusual. Usually, it's the bigger "box" that also fits the belt and epaulettes.
As you say, definitely a "cool" item!
Kurt



I did read that the width of the bullion stripe was indicative of rank (except Admiral of course). I just couldn't determine how wide Captain/Commander was and how wide Junior officer was. It is pretty wide, so I'm inclined to agree its a Commander or a Captain's (wish it was named!). I wonder if there are characteristics that one could look for that would determine age. Either way, early or late 20s, this is a nice hat!



Beau

Edited by Beau Wright, 08 July 2007 - 06:25 AM.


#8 PVON

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Posted 09 July 2007 - 05:14 AM

Neat!

They sure look good1

Here is set I just got!

PVON

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#9 PVON

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Posted 09 July 2007 - 05:15 AM

2nd pic

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#10 PVON

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Posted 09 July 2007 - 05:16 AM

3 pic

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#11 Ricardo

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Posted 09 July 2007 - 05:17 AM

Very nice items Paul!!

Nice to see you here my friend!! http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif

Best regards,

Ricardo.


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