Sgt. Alvin York site excavated

[alibi]

The subject of Alvin York’s action for which he was awarded the Medal of Honor has for some reason become a subject of controversy. Heated debate on at least one other forum regarding weapons used and other aspects of the “action” have been argued at length. Everyone agrees he was a great American and that he was modest about the Medal and everything that came with it.

 

York’s actions were more or less witnessed by surviving members of the squad who gave statements as to what they saw. Shortly after the Armistice officers of the A.E.F. conducted an investigation of the fight. During the investigation York was taken to the location and described what he recalled of the events and his movements. By then promoted to Sergeant, York was photographed standing on the slope he negotiated behind the German positions on top of the ridge. He also provided a statement that was recorded and included in the investigation file.

 

Sergeant Alvin York was awarded the Medal of Honor, served his time in France, and transported to the United States where he was given a hero’s welcome. He soon discharged with his fellows and made his way home to more welcome ceremonies and the gift of land from the people of Tennessee. He continued in his modest way to speak and gave away most of his money to charitable groups. Before long he was in difficulty with the Internal Revenue Service.

 

Alvin York allowed a writer and promoter to sell his story which included a “diary.” The diary had extracts of York’s actual diary, but much of the work was “writer’s license.” The description of the Medal of Honor action reads like an after action report or a statement provided after the event. This particular portion of the diary could not have been written by York into his diary for several reasons. 1. He was not that literate. 2. Diaries were not allowed in the front lines for security reasons. 3. The description of the action was clearly written long after the event and is most likely the record of his statement to the officers investigating the action. 4 It is known that much of the published diary was “edited” by York‘s so-called biographer. (The actual diary is still held by York’s descendants and has not been made available for research or publication.)

 

Among the “controversies” are the weapons York used that day. Many believe that York carried a M1903 .30 rifle, principally because his son stated several times that his father preferred the Springfield. In the published portions of his diary York stated that when he and the regiment arrived in France they turned in the M1903’s and were issued M1917 .30 rifles. He goes on to comment that he was getting along fine with the new rifle. This is all consistent with the decision made by the Army to arm the Regular Army divisions with M1903s and the National Guard divisions, including the 82nd Division, with the M1917. My assessment is that York probably liked the rear sight location on the M1917and he would have had no reason, even if given the opportunity to exchange it for a M1903.

 

A controversy that apparently only came up because of the film Sergeant York (1941) was what pistol York used to engage the charge the Germans conducted to eliminate the fire from their rear area. York mentions he was carrying an M1911 .45 pistol and indicated he fired three magazines expending all twenty-one rounds. In the film Gary Cooper (York) is using a German P08 Luger 9mm pistol. Since York was a consultant on the set it was assumed that he indicated he had used a Luger. As it turns out the function of blank firing M1911 pistols was notoriously unreliable and the Luger was substituted to get the scene.

 

About a year ago it was announced that an archeological team was seeking to locate the site of York’s Medal of Honor action. For some reason the media reported this as an attempt to discredit York. How any one could discredit York, members of his squad that witnessed at least part of York‘s action, 132 captured Germans and the investigating Army officers is beyond my comprehension.

 

There has recently been a group of historian-archeologists known as Battlefield Detectives that have visited battlefields and attempted to get a better understanding of the battle by archeological evidence. In some cases they have done a remarkable job of finding significant artifacts and in other cases gathered at least information that provided historical information. Although I don’t think the team seeking the York site where Battlefield Detectives it appeared that it was composed of some competent researchers, historians and archeologists.

 

I have to share that I am fascinated by the work archeologists do and how they can come to understand a society from the materials painstakingly unearthed. A fire burned off the vegetation at the Custer Battlefield site several years ago. The Park Service took the opportunity to do a complete archeological survey of the area. The results are astounding and provided considerable information regarding the sequence of the battle. I only mention this here to indicate that archeologists are doing some great work providing accurate information about our ancestors. I have been a mildly interested student of the battle and thought I had a pretty good knowledge of events at the Greasy Grass. However the report of the archeological survey also described the attempt to locate soldiers that had been killed in a ravine near the river and had been buried in the ravine by troops caving in and shoveling from the top of the ravine. These were apparently bodies the Indians never got to and were buried with all their equipment.

 

As to the York site the first report of the finding I have seen is in Armchair General, July 2007. I would not normally take an article in this particular magazine with much more than passing interest. I gave up on the illustrated history magazines a long time ago and this one is at least partially dedicated to war gaming so it is difficult to give the article any veracity. I do want to see the whole report by the professionals involved.

 

“Sergeant York Fought Here!” by Douglas Mastrino provides a well done overview of events leading up to the MOH action. The article has illustrations, one of which is a color graphic that shows in no detail where artifacts were located at the site. The illustration does give a general idea of the terrain but the vegetation shown is apparently how the site currently appears or did when the site was excavated. The illustrations of “German Infantry” and “Sgt. York” are so obviously stock illustrations and so inaccurate as to be laughable. The Sgt. York figure is carrying what appears to represent Lewis MG magazine pouches.

 

The evidence located and collected confirms York’s story in enough detail to end any controversy. Amazing enough 21 .45 ACP cartridge cases were recovered in the area where York fought off the down slope attack by the Germans. The location of .30 and 8mm rifle cartridge cases confirm York’s movements and the progress of the action. At the top of the ridge 100s of 8mm cartridge cases were excavated where the German MGs were placed. The location of a large number of unfired 8mm cartridge cases confirmed the site where the Germans surrendered to York and disarmed.

 

A man like York would have never allowed himself to be honored with the MOH or by so many people if his action did not deserve it. I think one of the greatest tributes to Alvin York came in 1942. MG Omar Bradley CG of the 82nd Infantry Division (prior to re-designation as airborne) invited York to visit the camp where the 82nd was training. The soldiers of the Division lionized York and it was a great morale event for the troops.

If you are aware of the availability a more comprehensive report on the archeological findings I would appreciate the information.

[ccmax]

I remember reading about it a short time ago. I do not recall where but here are some links:

 

http://www.mtsu.edu/~proffice/Record/Rec_v.../rec1512_p3.pdf

 

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/100571.aspx

[ccmax]

Make sure you also see this:

 

http://www.sgtyorkdiscovery.com/

 

http://www.sgtyorkdiscovery.com/SYDE_Report.php

[ADMIN]

Excellent thread.

 

I thought I would take a moment to post a few pictures of Sgt. York and one of his final resting place.

 

Sgt. York in the Service

 

 

 

 

 

Sgt. York in Later Years

 

Caption: Alvin C. York Wearing Congressional Medal - March 4, 1961

Famed World War I hero, Sgt. Alvin C. York, (left) was "mighty grateful" when he learned that the Internal Revenue Bureau had agreed on March 18th, to settle his $25,000 tax debt. The Revenue Bureau's announcement followed a national drive started by House Speaker Sam Rayburn, who donated $1,000 himself, to raise the money for Sgt. York's income tax debt. In this March photo, York's coveted Congressional Medal of Honor is admired by his grandson Larry Jackson York, (right). Pall Mall, Tennessee

 

From: http://www.medalofhonor.com/AlvinYorkMedal.htm

 

 

 

 

RIP Sgt. York

[pathfinder505]

There was a team of archeologists and historians who recently made a very detailed study of the York Battle site. They used actual maps, GPS, and found a lot of items they believe were Yorks.

One was a professor at MTSU in Murfreesboro, TN and another one was a History professor at TTU in Cookeville, TN. I would suggest if you would like info from the source that you contact Dr. Micheal Birdwell at Tennessee Technological University in Cookeville. I went to a presentation on the archeological findings about a month ago and it was really great. There is another guy who is publishing some items and is in the military or retired. The problem is he is in the wrong area and York wasnt in that area. I didnt read all these links but like I said just contact the source. Dr. Birdwell has a relationship with the York family and has been cataloging Alvin York papers, etc for some time.

[USMC A5 Sniper Rifle]

Whoa doggy. The 82nd was initially armed with M1917's, went to France, turned in their M1917's for SMLE's, went through trench warfare training, traded the SMLE's for their original M1917's, and went off to war (regimental history). It was the NG units that were armed with 1903's, not the regular army regiments. There is no record of York ever seeing a 1903 before that day, but less using one.

 

The rifle York refers to in his diary is an M1917, not a 1903.

 

Jim

[Johan Willaert]

SC Photo of Alvin York and Paul Huff (2 MOH Awardees) during a WW2 War Bonds Rally...

[VMI88]

Why is Sgt. York wearing a parachute badge and patch? Was this an honorary thing or was he actually sent through training at some point? It's interesting that he's wearing a World War 2-era uniform. Was he recalled to active duty for War Bond tours?

[pathfinder505]

Why is Sgt. York wearing a parachute badge and patch? Was this an honorary thing or was he actually sent through training at some point? It's interesting that he's wearing a World War 2-era uniform. Was he recalled to active duty for War Bond tours?

 

 

The guy wearing the WWII uniform is fellow Tennessean Paul Huff, who received the MOH while in the 509th. He was from Cleveland, TN and did promotions with York. At York's funeral, he presented the flag to Mrs. York. He was a true gentleman and hero.

[atb]

Why is Sgt. York wearing a parachute badge and patch? Was this an honorary thing or was he actually sent through training at some point? It's interesting that he's wearing a World War 2-era uniform. Was he recalled to active duty for War Bond tours?

York is the one in civilian clothes.