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US Model of 1910 Officer's Garrison Belt


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#1 INIMICUS

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 07:30 PM

lucky find I think at a consignment store: this belt rig which I suspect is pretty rare.

This one is OD web. Didn't Cav. officers about 1900-1912 or so - which I b'lieve is when this dates from - wear a LEATHER sword belt with leather hangers?

Anyway, the brass belt end clip has the standard "MADE BY MILLS ..." stamping and another metal part has Mills' "bullet" logo as seen on the EM pistol belt and other gear.

The push-turn, blackened buckle is unmarked. A large black stencil-type stamping "M M K" appears 2x on the belt - in one place followeed by what looks like "CAPT" - owners initials and rank I'd guess.

The rig is uncleaned but
all there, nothing is broken stained or torn. Anyone smarten me up about this style and hazard a guess as to fair value range?

Thanks.

webbelt_1.jpg

#2 INIMICUS

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 07:31 PM

lucky find I think at a consignment store: this belt rig which I suspect is pretty rare.

This one is OD web. Didn't Cav. officers about 1900-1912 or so - which I b'lieve is when this dates from - wear a LEATHER sword belt with leather hangers?

Anyway, the brass belt end clip has the standard "MADE BY MILLS ..." stamping and another metal part has Mills' "bullet" logo as seen on the EM pistol belt and other gear.

The push-turn, blackened buckle is unmarked. A large black stencil-type stamping "M M K" appears 2x on the belt - in one place followeed by what looks like "CAPT" - owners initials and rank I'd guess.

The rig is uncleaned but
all there, nothing is broken stained or torn. Anyone smarten me up about this style and hazard a guess as to fair value range?

Thanks.


sorry for the dbl. pic... here's another

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#3 INIMICUS

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 07:32 PM

sorry for the dbl. pic... here's another


pic 3

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#4 INIMICUS

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 07:33 PM

pic 3


pic 4

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#5 INIMICUS

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 07:34 PM

pic 4


last pic

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#6 Varangian

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 07:48 PM

I don't have any idea as to value, but I have a M1910 Mills belt with just the metal slide for the saber hanger, and it's nice to see what the whole rig looks like...

#7 SARGE

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 07:55 PM

A very scarce Mills web rig. The hangers are especially hard to find. Ya done good! The last one of these outfits I saw sold for around $500.

#8 Guest_Photographer_*

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 09:59 PM

Mills is top of the heap in belts. I think that is a 1905 buckel but not sure. Anyway it is a top notch peice. I would be proud to own it.

#9 Gil Sanow

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 06:36 AM

Mills is top of the heap in belts. I think that is a 1905 buckel but not sure. Anyway it is a top notch peice. I would be proud to own it.


With this type buckle (with the wreath and eagle) it is definitely an officer's. I believe officers wore leather in garrison, web in the field. Nice belt!

G

#10 INIMICUS

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 06:58 AM

With this type buckle (with the wreath and eagle) it is definitely an officer's. I believe officers wore leather in garrison, web in the field. Nice belt!

G



Gosh - that's "huge" news, guys - great! Very much appreciated. I see lots of Mills EM pistol belts (well, not the USMC-button ones!) but these 'uns seem scarce as you-know-what...

It's a mantra, but keep poring thru the 1970s clothes, cheap pottery and broken pix frames & we'll turn up The Good Stuff....

Good hunting!

#11 Charlie Flick

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 07:52 AM

Inimicus:

You made a very nice find there.

What you have is a US Model of 1910 Officer's Garrison Belt. It is the most finely made web belt of the 20th Century. It came equipped with the sword hanger that your's displays.

Web garrison belts of several types were also made by Mills for enlisted men. These were essentially identical except for the items placed on the belt. Those belts all had the darkened bronze, circular belt plate but were marked "U.S." rather than with the eagle. These were belts for bandsmen, mounted orderlies and members of machine gun platoons. Another belt in this series, the M1910 Enlisted Man's Garrison Belt for headquarters personnel was fitted with a belt plate that simply had an "H" on the belt plate.

These belts were in use from 1910 to around 1917 when they were replaced with the Model of 1917 Garrison Belt.

Belts in this series are not rare but are considered scarce and desirable by collectors. The Officer's Belt is the fanciest and most sought after of the bunch.

BTW, the title of your post suggests that this was a Cavalry item. Actually, these belts were used by all parts of the Army and were not Cavalry-specific.

I hope this information is helpful to you.

Regards,
Charlie Flick

Edited by Charlie Flick, 16 June 2007 - 07:54 AM.


#12 INIMICUS

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 01:09 PM

Inimicus:

You made a very nice find there.

What you have is a US Model of 1910 Officer's Garrison Belt. It is the most finely made web belt of the 20th Century. It came equipped with the sword hanger that your's displays.

Web garrison belts of several types were also made by Mills for enlisted men. These were essentially identical except for the items placed on the belt. Those belts all had the darkened bronze, circular belt plate but were marked "U.S." rather than with the eagle. These were belts for bandsmen, mounted orderlies and members of machine gun platoons. Another belt in this series, the M1910 Enlisted Man's Garrison Belt for headquarters personnel was fitted with a belt plate that simply had an "H" on the belt plate.

These belts were in use from 1910 to around 1917 when they were replaced with the Model of 1917 Garrison Belt.

Belts in this series are not rare but are considered scarce and desirable by collectors. The Officer's Belt is the fanciest and most sought after of the bunch.

BTW, the title of your post suggests that this was a Cavalry item. Actually, these belts were used by all parts of the Army and were not Cavalry-specific.

I hope this information is helpful to you.

Regards,
Charlie Flick




much obliged, Charlie, truly.

BTW, it's interesting that this model "push-turn" buckle (in silver color) was later used for Gnl. officers' belts with black patent leather - this practice has stopped, has it?

And wasn't there for a time a black belt with GOLD color buckle in this style?

#13 cwnorma

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 02:08 PM

You are correct. There was (and still is) a General Officer's pattern Belt using a very similar (they are not quite identical) buckle. Early ones have a russet brown belt, and later versions have a black leather belt.

What you have however, is the grand-daddy of those belts.

The Air Force also has a version of this belt for general officers with a silver buckle.

The belt you found is a $500+ item.

Creat catch!


much obliged, Charlie, truly.

BTW, it's interesting that this model "push-turn" buckle (in silver color) was later used for Gnl. officers' belts with black patent leather - this practice has stopped, has it?

And wasn't there for a time a black belt with GOLD color buckle in this style?



#14 Charlie Flick

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 02:17 PM

BTW, it's interesting that this model "push-turn" buckle (in silver color) was later used for Gnl. officers' belts with black patent leather - this practice has stopped, has it? And wasn't there for a time a black belt with GOLD color buckle in this style?


Inimicus:

You are thinking of the General Officers belts that were issued from WW2 through to the present. They are not Garrison Belts in the true sense of the term.

The WW2 issued GO belts were brown leather and had a gold plated 2 piece belt plate with the national eagle and wreath, along with a matching brown holster. Holsters were made for the M1911A1 and the Colt Hammerless .32 and .380 Auto pistols.) These were in use until about 1957 when leather equipments in the Army changed color to black.

The belt was then issued, along with a matching holster (for either the M1911A1 or the smaller Colt autos), in black (not patent leather, though). The gold plated buckle remained the same basic design. A photo of this belt and holster rig for the .45 pistol is shown below.

USGOrig_black_belt_and_accoutremnts.jpg

In the mid 1970s the M15 .45 GO pistol was issued which required a new holster style although the belt remained essentially unchanged. Bianchi made these belts and holsters, as I recall, and the buckles are marked Bianchi. With the adoption of the M9 pistol another new holster was required. A new rig, of Bianchi design, in black leather and using the same basic buckle was selected. The USAF now issues a GO rig as well, but its buckle is silver in color and the design is somewhat more stylized.

I hope this explains the belts in question.

Charlie

#15 Gil Sanow

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 04:35 PM

Inimicus:

You are thinking of the General Officers belts that were issued from WW2 through to the present. They are not Garrison Belts in the true sense of the term.

The WW2 issued GO belts were brown leather and had a gold plated 2 piece belt plate with the national eagle and wreath, along with a matching brown holster. Holsters were made for the M1911A1 and the Colt Hammerless .32 and .380 Auto pistols.) These were in use until about 1957 when leather equipments in the Army changed color to black.

The belt was then issued, along with a matching holster (for either the M1911A1 or the smaller Colt autos), in black (not patent leather, though). The gold plated buckle remained the same basic design. A photo of this belt and holster rig for the .45 pistol is shown below.

USGOrig_black_belt_and_accoutremnts.jpg

In the mid 1970s the M15 .45 GO pistol was issued which required a new holster style although the belt remained essentially unchanged. Bianchi made these belts and holsters, as I recall, and the buckles are marked Bianchi. With the adoption of the M9 pistol another new holster was required. A new rig, of Bianchi design, in black leather and using the same basic buckle was selected. The USAF now issues a GO rig as well, but its buckle is silver in color and the design is somewhat more stylized.

I hope this explains the belts in question.

Charlie


No, the belts of which I am speaking were with blackened bronze 2-piece interlocking buckles. GEN Patton had one of these polished, and I think plated, and he wore it with his personal (non-issue) belt set. When they started issuing the brown belt rigs to GO's in '44 or so, the used the same design. It continued with the black belts like yours and continues today, thugh both belts and buckles are different.

You can see one oif the WW2 brown rigs in the pic below.

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#16 BOB K. RKSS

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 04:52 AM

Here's a black leather belt, I have, & suspect is early General's; because the WREATH is Silver.

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#17 INIMICUS

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 06:25 AM

Here's a black leather belt, I have, & suspect is early General's; because the WREATH is Silver.


beautidful piece bob! and it appears FACTORY silvered - tho generals had the right to make the whole thing sterling silver or even solid gold if they wished, yes?

thanx for the extra input.

#18 Gil Sanow

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 09:11 AM

Here's a black leather belt, I have, & suspect is early General's; because the WREATH is Silver.



I am not sure what this is. So far as I know, all issued GO belts were 2-ply with gold (only) buckles. The older ones had separate gold eagles and wreaths on the two parts of the interlocking buckle. I suspect this one is an old M1912 officer buckle with the parts polished and plated gold and silver. The belt is certainly not GI.

Now, the later Bianchi buckles are cast in two parts with the eagle and wreath integrally.

Edited by Gil Sanow, 18 June 2007 - 09:13 AM.


#19 INIMICUS

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 09:21 AM

I am not sure what this is. So far as I know, all issued GO belts were 2-ply with gold (only) buckles. The older ones had separate gold eagles and wreaths on the two parts of the interlocking buckle. I suspect this one is an old M1912 officer buckle with the parts polished and plated gold and silver. The belt is certainly not GI.

Now, the later Bianchi buckles are cast in two parts with the eagle and wreath integrally.


more good stuff - thanks gil. again sounds a bit like Generals' Privelege, eh what?

#20 Gil Sanow

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 04:14 PM

more good stuff - thanks gil. again sounds a bit like Generals' Privelege, eh what?



Actually, I almost suspect non-GI or non-GO civilian wear. Not really sure what it is. The length adjustment looks almost CW waistbelt style.


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