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WW1 Experimental No. 5 with ID


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#1 trenchbuff

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 02:35 PM

There are quite a few of these WWI experimental model No. 5 helmets around. According to Dean's book on WWI armor the Hale and Kilburn Company of Philadelphia made several thousand which were shipped to the AEF for testing. Ultimately, they were rejected for looking too much like German helmets. It's very similar, but not quite, to the helmet used by the Swiss Army. I've seen a couple photos of these being worn by American soldiers, but this is the only one I've owned that was issued to a soldier. It has an 83rd Division insignia inscribed on the front and a soldier's name written on the liner. The name looks to be J. E. Lust, Co. K. Could be Just, but the first letter looks more like an L. I haven't been able to research him, but there is a good chance that he came from Ohio since many of the men in the 83rd did. Thought I'd share it with the forum and see if anyone else has any of these experimental type helmets that might have been issued.

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#2 trenchbuff

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 02:36 PM

Close-up of the insignia and liner.

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#3 Bugme

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 02:40 PM

I don't own any experimentals but, I sure like yours! Impressive condition for a 90 year old lid.

#4 aef1917

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 05:44 AM

Wow, that's like three different levels of rare. 83rd Division helmets are rare, No. 5s are rare, and unit-marked experimental helmets are rare.

#5 peter

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 06:49 AM

A very nice helmet in a beautyful condition! :love: Is there a known history behind it?

#6 trenchbuff

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 02:41 PM

A very nice helmet in a beautyful condition! :love: Is there a known history behind it?

If I can track down the name in the liner I might be able to expand on the history, but til then I only have the history the helmet presents.

#7 37thguy

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 03:14 PM

Try this one on for size:

Lust, John E, serial # 1938108 916 Faustina St, Bucyrus, OH
NA Sept, 20/17 Bn Crawford Co, Oh 25 years old Co. "K" 329th Inf (83d Div) to discharge. Mechanic
AEF June 12,18-Jan 31-19 Hon Dsch Feb 15-19

My guess is that's your boy!

#8 trenchbuff

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 08:46 AM

Try this one on for size:

Lust, John E, serial # 1938108 916 Faustina St, Bucyrus, OH
NA Sept, 20/17 Bn Crawford Co, Oh 25 years old Co. "K" 329th Inf (83d Div) to discharge. Mechanic
AEF June 12,18-Jan 31-19 Hon Dsch Feb 15-19

My guess is that's your boy!


The ID matches perfectly. Thank you for your kind assistance. I'm wondering if the 329th was a test unit for the new helmet?

#9 Belleauwood

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 02:21 AM

Mark,

Your entire collection is one of the highest quality, with some of the rarest WW1 artifacts ever assembled. I for one have never seen finer artifacts in either a public museum or private collection. I sometimes regret that I've specialized as much as I have when I see such wonderful pieces from your collection.

Hoping you amd your's a wonderful and Merry Christmas!!

DJ

#10 Chris Liontas

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 12:21 PM

Here is the photo, Taken in France (post Armistice) by members of the 120th FA, 32nd Division. The "hun" is actually the 1st SGT :) I'll edit with names later.

I am fairly sure that is the experimental American Helmet--although I am not sure how the 120th FA HQ section would have gotten one??

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Edited by Chris Liontas, 24 December 2009 - 12:24 PM.


#11 Chris Liontas

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 12:23 PM

Shot #2

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#12 P-E

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 01:17 PM

It's strange because the soldier that wears the helmet and the soldier on the ground seems to be german...(belt, rain coat and cap).

And for the helmet, tes, it looks like the #5 experimental helmet of the US Army....

Edited by P-E, 24 December 2009 - 01:19 PM.


#13 Chris Liontas

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Posted 25 December 2009 - 07:48 PM

It's strange because the soldier that wears the helmet and the soldier on the ground seems to be german...(belt, rain coat and cap).

And for the helmet, tes, it looks like the #5 experimental helmet of the US Army....



The photos are actually staged. The "German" solder is the HQ 120th FA 1st SGT, !SGT Carnihan, and the man capturing him was the owner of the photo album I have SGT Simmons. They actually then traded the overcoat, cap, and belt so 1SGT Carnihan could then capture "a German" :)


My question for the members, is how did the HQ section 120th FA get one of these helmets in 1919? I thought these were not shipped to front line units. The photo dates from the 32nd Divisions occupation duty. The helmet pictured at the start of this thread is a beauty, but I didnt think any were actually issued. Would that have been issued on a limited basis for experimental purposes??


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