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M1911 lanyard loop magazines


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#1 Fausto

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 12:47 AM

Hello!
In a previous post on my M1911 pistol, among various comments I asked about the lanyard loop magazine use. Maybe my question was not noticed and I'm here again. Hope that this will not be boring, but this question is very important to me.
In more than 40 years of collecting and reading a lot of U.S. books and articles, I'm still wondering about the intended use of the lanyard loop magazines. Have you any clue of the right use of this? If you hook a lanyard to the magazine loop and not to the pistol, yes, you will not loose the magazine (maybe if you are riding a horse), but if you fire all your rounds and have to change the magazine with a new full one, then the pistol is no more secured at all and the empty magazine is not comfortably bouncing here and there. Not to mention that any traction of the lanyard on the magazine floor plate seems not that good...
I have several original manuals dating WWI and before (even one printed in France in 1918 for AEF), but no one speaks about the right use of the magazine loop... Btw the lanyard loop magazine on my pistol is uncorrect, because the pistol was released by Colt in July 1917 and the lanyard loop magazine was dropped in May 1915, but this is another story I already told you in the other post...Thanks for your help!
Cheers, Fausto

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Edited by Fausto, 06 December 2009 - 12:56 AM.


#2 Doran

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 03:14 AM

Consensus seems to be separate lanyards were intended for the pistol and magazines, also that multiple lanyards were not practical so the loop was dropped.

#3 45B20

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 03:33 AM

Fausto
Clawson, on page 90, referring to this loop states, “there was never a standardized use for it.” Revision #1 to drawing 42-8-12, dated Mar. 20, 1916 officially eliminated the lanyard loop.

Meadows, pg 127, gives the date of the last pistol assembled with the loop as Oct 05, 1915.

The magazine loop was suggested by a Capt. Cole for use with the Model 1902’s magazine. Also from Clawson.

I believe I have seen early photos that show a cavalryman wearing a separate lanyard for the magazine. I will keep looking and see if I can find it. But two cords attached to the same pistol while on a horse sounds like a potential for entanglement.

45B20

#4 Fausto

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 07:47 AM

Thanks Guys!
Thanks for your attention. I didn't figure a double lanyard, but this would seem the only way to secure both the pistol and the magazine. A picture would be very interesting... Btw Clawson's book - if I rememeber well - states that pistol lanyards were not that much liked and used among U.S. troops, especially in WWII. Thanks again...
Fausto

#5 LoadedColt45

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 06:28 PM

I have read that the pistol lanyard was to be attached to the gun itself and a seperate cord (maybe a pistol lanyard/or not) was tied to the bottom loop of the first magazine. In case the cavalry man shot every round in his gun, he could just drop the first magazine without having to secure it and thus reload quicker.

#6 Charlie Flick

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 04:32 PM

Hello Fausto:

The following is from page 283 of the "Drill Regulations of Field Companies of the Signal Corps", 1915 edition.

Regards,
Charlie Flick

SIGNAL CORPS DRILL REGULATIONS.

Changes 1 WAR DEPARTMENT,

No. 3. / Washington, August 16, 1915.

Paragraphs 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 10*6, 107, and 108, Drill Regulations for Field Companies of the Signal Corps, are changed as follows:

95. The recruit is first made familiar with the mechanism of the pistol, the names of the principal parts, and the method of cleaning, assembling, and operating it.

When a lanyard is used, the snaps are attached to the butt of the pistol and the magazine; the sliding loop is passed over the head and drawn snug against the right armpit. The lanyard should then be of just such length that the arm can be extended without constraint. (C. S. C. D. R., No. S, Aug. 16, 1915.)


#7 Fausto

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 11:55 PM

Thanks Charlie, thanks a lot !!
This is the very first time I read something official about U.S. lanyards. It seems anyway not so clear: it speaks of "a lanyard" and "snaps". We would figure some lanyard with two snaps (never seen...) or two lanyards?
Regards
Fausto

#8 Pat Holscher

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 05:08 PM

Hello Fausto:

The following is from page 283 of the "Drill Regulations of Field Companies of the Signal Corps", 1915 edition.

Regards,
Charlie Flick

SIGNAL CORPS DRILL REGULATIONS.

Changes 1 WAR DEPARTMENT,

No. 3. / Washington, August 16, 1915.

Paragraphs 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 10*6, 107, and 108, Drill Regulations for Field Companies of the Signal Corps, are changed as follows:

95. The recruit is first made familiar with the mechanism of the pistol, the names of the principal parts, and the method of cleaning, assembling, and operating it.

When a lanyard is used, the snaps are attached to the butt of the pistol and the magazine; the sliding loop is passed over the head and drawn snug against the right armpit. The lanyard should then be of just such length that the arm can be extended without constraint. (C. S. C. D. R., No. S, Aug. 16, 1915.)


And to add a bit:

Cavalry Drill Regulations, 1916, Manual of the Pistol:

"When a lanyard is used the snaps are attached to the butt of the pistol and the magazine, the lanyard is passed over the head and the sliding loop drawn snug against the right armpit. The lanyard should then be of just such length that the arm can be extended without constraint."

This indicates that the "M1912" lanyard had 2 snap hooks. I expect that it was identical to the M1904 but with a leather mounted japaned snap hook on each end of the cord. Used as indicated, the spent magazine would be ejected and suspended from one end of the lanyard depending from the sliding loop under the right arm pit. In a mounted pistol charge, I doubt if it was expected to use more than a second magazine or to move the magazine lanyard to the new magazine in the pistol. Around 1915, the loop on the magazine was discontinued, but looped mags continued in service.


From:

http://www.militaryh...p...f=3&t=11390

#9 12thengr

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 06:15 PM

I read somewhere,Bady? That it was the cheapness of the cavalry board. They didn't want to adopt a pistol that had expensive, (.50 cent?) magazines, that any idiot trooper could lose. A fallback I guess, so the Army could go ahead with the Colt 1911.

#10 artu44

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 04:19 AM

Well Fausto, I've read in Milsurp forum that a guy think he saw a lanyard with three hooks, buy possibly he was in some alcoholic trip. Considering that M1902 lanyard didn't fit the M1911 and that the first suitable one is pat 20 feb 17 when magazines since 2 years were loopless, I'd stay with Johnny Peppers: "My idea on the lanyard loop on the magazine is that it was a good idea, but had no practical application. The military is slow to change, but by 1915 the lanyard loop on the magazine was considered useless and discontinued" . In other words nobody knows (nor the Drill Regulations writer) how to use an unsuitable M1902 revolver lanyard with one hook with three loops at once. That means: forget it.

#11 Pat Holscher

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 09:25 AM

Well Fausto, I've read in Milsurp forum that a guy think he saw a lanyard with three hooks, buy possibly he was in some alcoholic trip. Considering that M1902 lanyard didn't fit the M1911 and that the first suitable one is pat 20 feb 17 when magazines since 2 years were loopless, I'd stay with Johnny Peppers: "My idea on the lanyard loop on the magazine is that it was a good idea, but had no practical application. The military is slow to change, but by 1915 the lanyard loop on the magazine was considered useless and discontinued" . In other words nobody knows (nor the Drill Regulations writer) how to use an unsuitable M1902 revolver lanyard with one hook with three loops at once. That means: forget it.


I wonder how often lanyards were really used.

We've been discussing this on the SMH thread:

http://www.militaryh...p...f=3&t=11390

Frankly, we aren't finding that they were really used all that much in the WWI time frame, or later.

#12 artu44

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 09:40 AM

I wonder how often lanyards were really used.

We've been discussing this on the SMH thread:

http://www.militaryh...p...f=3&t=11390

Frankly, we aren't finding that they were really used all that much in the WWI time frame, or later.



Casually all 1917 lanyards I ever saw were all mint unissued and french buddies never found one of them digging with metal detector.


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