Sabrejet Posted November 25, 2009 Share #1 Posted November 25, 2009 This is an interesting item...a French-made Aerial Gunners' wing. It has an unusual tubular locking device on the pin. It bears the maker's mark Huguenin Le Locle and the European 925 silver mark. As for its period, I'm guessing just post-war as French industry probably wouldn't have got its act together in time to produce these wings during the '44-'45 Allied advance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted November 25, 2009 Share #2 Posted November 25, 2009 My oh my. How many ways can you say RARE! Very nice find! It would make a unique and most welcomed addition to any 1913-1946 collection . . . :thumbsup: Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted November 25, 2009 My oh my. How many ways can you say RARE! Very nice find! It would make a unique and most welcomed addition to any 1913-1946 collection . . . :thumbsup: Cliff Thanks Cliff. I say "French" but I suppose it could also conceivably be Belgian? I daresay someone out there will enlighten us? Ian :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pconrad02 Posted November 25, 2009 Share #4 Posted November 25, 2009 Actually when I Googled this it came up as a Swiss medals maker! http://www.orden.stojanovic.ch/yu-crown.html http://img.inkfrog.com/click_enlarge1.php?...mp;aid=65350907 Super cool ! :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted November 25, 2009 Share #5 Posted November 25, 2009 Ian, Huguenin was a Swiss maker of badges and medals. Switzerland maintained a state of armed neutrality during the war and was a safe haven for American airmen; therefore, your badge could easily have been made sometime between 1943 and 1945. Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted November 25, 2009 Ian, Huguenin was a Swiss maker of badges and medals; therefore, your badge could easily have been made sometime between 1943 and 1945. Cliff Swiss?! Curiouser and curiouser..as the saying goes! So why would the neutral Swiss be manufacturing wings for the USAAF?! The only American aircrew in Switzerland would have been those interred for the duration when they landed their flak-damaged ships on Swiss territory. Surely the Swiss wouldn't manufacture wings on a small scale for them...would they?! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawk3370 Posted November 25, 2009 Share #7 Posted November 25, 2009 Ian, very very nice. Be it Swiss, French or Upper Frost Bite Falls it is a wonderful piece. I concur with Cliff when he says "RARE". Now then I know a poor retarded I mean retired Maj staring at an empty Christmas tree who has asked Santa for this exact set of wings every year for the past 50 years. And wouldn't you know he got the address wrong and dropped them at your house. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted November 25, 2009 Share #8 Posted November 25, 2009 Swiss?! Curiouser and curiouser..as the saying goes! So why would the neutral Swiss be manufacturing wings for the USAAF?! The only American aircrew in Switzerland would have been those interred for the duration when they landed their flak-damaged ships on Swiss territory. Surely the Swiss wouldn't manufacture wings on a small scale for them...would they?! Ian Possibly. Over a hundred USAAF aircraft and crews were interned and/or avoided capture in Switzerland during the war. Consequently, within limits, they were allowed some freedom of movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted November 25, 2009 Ian, very very nice. Be it Swiss, French or Upper Frost Bite Falls it is a wonderful piece. I concur with Cliff when he says "RARE". Now then I know a poor retarded I mean retired Maj staring at an empty Christmas tree who has asked Santa for this exact set of wings every year for the past 50 years. And wouldn't you know he got the address wrong and dropped them at your house. Terry Hi Terry! Well, it's nice to know that I have something considered rare and desirable! I must have had it for at least 10 years..actually, I just re-found it last night whilst sorting through a box of assorted insignia. Can't remember buying it specifically, it's just one of many wings I've trawled at collectors' meets over the years. Ian :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted November 25, 2009 Share #10 Posted November 25, 2009 Now then I know a poor retarded I mean retired Maj staring at an empty Christmas tree who has asked Santa for this exact set of wings every year for the past 50 years. And wouldn't you know he got the address wrong and dropped them at your house. Terry Now wait a minute Terry, you may have out-ranked me but I asked him first!!!! Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawk3370 Posted November 25, 2009 Share #11 Posted November 25, 2009 Now wait a minute Terry, you may have out-ranked me but I asked him first!!!! Cliff Cliff, I guess we can just cut them in half, you get one half and I the other. Which side do you want? Happy Thanksgiving! Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted November 25, 2009 Share #12 Posted November 25, 2009 It looks like you hit the nail on this one Sabre!!!! Well done mate!! -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted November 25, 2009 Share #13 Posted November 25, 2009 I traded a few emails with someone recently that introduced me to the subject of ongoing lobbying on behalf of former airmen who had been held in Switzerland during the war who claimed that their living conditions and treatment was so poor that they have been seeking POW status from Congress. I don't know the merits of the claim and would wonder if the effort were entirely justified. On the other hand, in another exchange with an 89 year old navigator and author of a fine book about his own experiences, I asked him about his views of those who took their planes to Switzerland. His response was none too charitable. Joseph Heller deals with the subject in "Catch-22" and I've been aware for many years of the controversy. Recently, I've undertaken to chart one of the Bomb Group's missions in a spread sheet...charting missions vs. first pilots and noting the outcomes for each. The results, although only half-done at this time, provide a remarkably clear picture of how at least one of the Groups managed their combat crews. One of the more remarkable revaluations is that the loss of crews to Switzerland or Sweden seems to have come in short duration bursts...2 or 3 on one mission, then another 1 or 2 a mission or so later. I'm not ready to declare any opinion on the subject, but the groupings of losses are quite observable from the spreadsheet. This wing is but another factual bit of history that can help support a hypothesis of one kind or another. Paul S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share #14 Posted November 25, 2009 So... is the possible scenario one in which interred American aircrewmen commissioned the Swiss maker to produce wings for them? If so, is it likely that some would have had their US made wings with them and supplied them as mold patterns to the Swiss? Do any eagle-eyed wing collectors out there recognize the pattern upon which these were based? Balfour maybe? Presumably, the production runs would have been small? Ian :think: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted November 25, 2009 Share #15 Posted November 25, 2009 So... is the possible scenario one in which interred American aircrewmen commissioned the Swiss maker to produce wings for them? If so, is it likely that some would have had their US made wings with them and supplied them as mold patterns to the Swiss? Do any eagle-eyed wing collectors out there recognize the pattern upon which these were based? Presumably, the production runs would have been small? Ian :think: It's only a guess but since most airmen, especially the gunners, would have been wearing their flight gear rather than their uniforms when they were forced down, they very well could have had the badges produced while interred by the Swiss. Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share #16 Posted November 25, 2009 It's only a guess but since most airmen, especially the gunners, would have been wearing their flight gear rather than their uniforms when they were forced down, they very well could have had the badges produced while interred by the Swiss. Cliff That occurred to me too Cliff. That said, it's theoretically possible that someone had a pair stuffed into a pocket? Failing that, I suppose they would have to have been drawn from memory in order to provide the maker with a pattern? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted November 25, 2009 Share #17 Posted November 25, 2009 Great post! It is not often you get to see something like this! That is twice now in as many weeks that I got to see a wing that is so scarce. Great Find! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share #18 Posted November 25, 2009 Please note, dear readers...the title was changed to "Swiss-made" when it became apparent that they were not French after all! However, they are referred to as "French" in the opening post. A few posts later they were actually identified as Swiss! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Marine Posted November 25, 2009 Share #19 Posted November 25, 2009 I bought a small group of 88th Division items awhile ago. In that group was a 1945 souvenir photo book of Switzerland. The book was Swiss made and specifically made to be sold to US servicemen tourists. The book featured a lot of photos of GIs visiting famous Swiss landmarks. At the end of the war didn't the army have organized sightseeing trips like this that you could sign up for? Could it be that at the end of the war Switzerland was inundated with GI tourists? Guys on leave wandering the streets with a pocket full of cash might be reason enough to start producing US insignia. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted November 25, 2009 Share #20 Posted November 25, 2009 I want to add some additional thoughts here on when this wing was likely produced. Thinking about the neutral status of the Swiss during the war I would suspect that companies would not have started to produce any medals, insignia... until after the war. With the number of US, UK.. troops I think a wise company would start to produce items as soon as they could tool up. Think about all the ASSMANN wings you have seen. Cheers John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share #21 Posted November 25, 2009 I'm not so sure that the Swiss adhere to their "neutrality" when there's a buck to be made! How much Nazi gold was secreted in Swiss banks?! With regard to German-made wings, patches and other metal insignia, the Germans had a large US Army of Occupation to service and a shattered economy to re-build...simple supply-and-demand economics. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted November 25, 2009 Share #22 Posted November 25, 2009 Ian, what is the length to a sixteenth or in mm? and the weight, if you have a small scale? It looks somewhat close to an AMICO desogm, but not exact. Paul S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share #23 Posted November 25, 2009 Ian, what is the length to a sixteenth or in mm? and the weight, if you have a small scale? It looks somewhat close to an AMICO desogm, but not exact. Paul S 75mm..just a tad under 3" tip to tip and about 16g on the kitchen digital scales. Why is this significant?! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDK Posted November 26, 2009 Share #24 Posted November 26, 2009 It's only a guess but since most airmen, especially the gunners, would have been wearing their flight gear rather than their uniforms when they were forced down, they very well could have had the badges produced while interred by the Swiss. Cliff I have to agree with Cliff. That makes complete sense to me. Awesome wing! Mega Bucks! :thumbsup: JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted November 26, 2009 Share #25 Posted November 26, 2009 Ian, the weight tells me whether it is an average weight wing, or light or heavy. In this case it is a bit lighter than other wings of the same rating. The regulations specified a 76.2 mm (3") wing as the standard; however, the actual lengths vary somewhat from mfg. to mfg. from slightly under 3" to 3.25". I've found that lengths and weights, although a variable between different manufacturers, usually do not vary much within a given manufacturer's production. A significant variation from the norm might suggest a cast piece or comparing dimensions could help identify a certain maker as a possible source of the die. I didn't find a match to your wing in my files, so it's quite possible your wing is a unique Swiss die maker's creation, similar to Assmann. Wouldn't surprise me...those folks are marvelous craftsmen and proud, too. What a great piece...thanks for sharing. Paul S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now