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Spike Helmet EGA


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#26 Brig

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 04:08 PM

nice wall decoration. I keep the repros I encounter as conversation pieces and references

#27 shrapneldude

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 06:25 PM

Another question:
A lot of the EGAs I see out there, to my un-advanced eye, look like complete fabrications...fakes, fantasy pieces, and they're touted as real and certified and such. I'm talking about the ones with the great big anchors, or the goofy looking birds on (not the droopy wings...some of them out there look more like ducks).

Hallmarks aside, how can one tell which ones are real and which ones are not, with such a wide-ranging variety of them on the market? And further...does anyone know of any sources for this HUGE amount of fake EGAs? I know fake "in-country" 'Nam patches are being cranked out by the thousands in Thailand and Vietnam and places like that, but who is making all these goofy looking EGAs? Are they working off legit copies (in photos over the internet, some of them look pretty close to ones I've seen on this forum even).

I know the weirdo style and the very early EGAs are fetching insane BS prices with some, on eBay and such, but have they always been so high? Some of the FAKES I've seen do appear to be pretty old -- not artificially aged, but made a long time ago.

Anyone have any thoughts on this that can help me out, because going through the EGA ref. section on here and looking around on other sites I am totally, totally lost.

Still haven't found a known fake globe that matches this one ( I don't dobut what was said of this particular EGA is true - just trying to figure out the whole EGA thing).

#28 normaninvasion

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 06:46 PM

The only thing I can add as I'm just scratching the surface when it comes to egas. I studied the Forum but it only came together when I held originals in my hand. I had an epiphany when I recieved my 1st set of 20s officer collar piecies, it all started to make a little more sense. These are definitley items that need to be held and studied close up. Then, when I go back to ega posts it puts the pieces of the puzzle together. Hope this helps....jeff

#29 Bob Hudson

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 06:53 PM

Another question:
A lot of the EGAs I see out there, to my un-advanced eye, look like complete fabrications...fakes, fantasy pieces, and they're touted as real and certified and such. I'm talking about the ones with the great big anchors, or the goofy looking birds on (not the droopy wings...some of them out there look more like ducks).

Hallmarks aside, how can one tell which ones are real and which ones are not, with such a wide-ranging variety of them on the market? And further...does anyone know of any sources for this HUGE amount of fake EGAs? I know fake "in-country" 'Nam patches are being cranked out by the thousands in Thailand and Vietnam and places like that, but who is making all these goofy looking EGAs? Are they working off legit copies (in photos over the internet, some of them look pretty close to ones I've seen on this forum even).

I know the weirdo style and the very early EGAs are fetching insane BS prices with some, on eBay and such, but have they always been so high? Some of the FAKES I've seen do appear to be pretty old -- not artificially aged, but made a long time ago.

Anyone have any thoughts on this that can help me out, because going through the EGA ref. section on here and looking around on other sites I am totally, totally lost.

Still haven't found a known fake globe that matches this one ( I don't dobut what was said of this particular EGA is true - just trying to figure out the whole EGA thing).



I don't know that there is a HUGE amount of fakes - or at least not a HUGE amount of convincing fakes. There is a company in Washington DC that sells them on Ebay and at shows and the ones I saw at a show were pretty bad.

The problem comes with the older EGA's - as noted here, even most EGA collectors have never seen a photo of a real one of some types, let alone the real thing itself. Add to that that private jewelers did make these for officers at least, and no one really knows exactly what was produced back in the day. Granted some have a better idea than others of what is and what ain't, but one thing we've learned since starting this EGA section is that there is a lot to learn.

With your piece, I'd say there have been some good educated guesses, but the EGA collecting community as a whole doesn't know enough to make a definitive call on that, not until they can produce others like, come up with an explanation as to why someone would try to create a fake with what appears to be a German hallmark? It's rather like making counterfeit hundred dollar bills and then writing IN GOD WE TRUST in Spanish.

#30 shrapneldude

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 08:24 PM

I don't know that there is a HUGE amount of fakes - or at least not a HUGE amount of convincing fakes. There is a company in Washington DC that sells them on Ebay and at shows and the ones I saw at a show were pretty bad.

The problem comes with the older EGA's - as noted here, even most EGA collectors have never seen a photo of a real one of some types, let alone the real thing itself. Add to that that private jewelers did make these for officers at least, and no one really knows exactly what was produced back in the day. Granted some have a better idea than others of what is and what ain't, but one thing we've learned since starting this EGA section is that there is a lot to learn.

With your piece, I'd say there have been some good educated guesses, but the EGA collecting community as a whole doesn't know enough to make a definitive call on that, not until they can produce others like, come up with an explanation as to why someone would try to create a fake with what appears to be a German hallmark? It's rather like making counterfeit hundred dollar bills and then writing IN GOD WE TRUST in Spanish.


That's about the first thing on EGA's I've read that makes sense! haha
National Capital Historical Sales (I think that's the name of the company you're referring to) does make some low-end repro items, but they're easily spotted.

I guess the confusion for me started at the Miller estate auction in Gettysburg, PA. Before that time, I never really thought the old goofy-looking EGA's were worth anything, and to be honest, some of them looked so obtuse and abnormal that they couldn't (to my mind at the time) have possibly been allowed under USMC rules and regs during the time they were supposedly worn. They looked almost cartoonish and felt like gumball machine prizes. As the auction progressed, however, I won a single USMC collar disk, a few WWI era and WWII era EGAs for what I thought were decent prices, and then these oddball ones came up and started going past the $500 and $1,000 marks to phone bidders and to people on-site. Since then, I've been looking into it a little and am just as lost as I was a year ago and still don't get it.

#31 usmcaviator

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Posted 27 November 2009 - 01:08 AM

Brian, interesting observation for sure. Care to share with us photo's of one of your Officer emblems and point out the subtle things that are missing so we can all "get educated" s/f Darrell

Gents, here is a link to a thread I started a couple years ago that detail an original. http://www.usmilitar...?showtopic=9799. With the pieces in my collection, the officer version does not change from the enlisted, except that it is struck of solid silver (believe this is stated in the 1892 regulations). The continents and anchor are gold plated. I also have an all silver version (I know of one other), which is believed for use with the band or for the officer's saddlecloth (enlisted used a leather version, officer used a metal version). I am waiting to find an original officer's saddlecloth to see for myself. I have some vintage pictures of officer's saddlecloths but none are close enough to break out great detail, but I know they were metal.

As stated before, I know of two different methods of mounting, prong (Type 1) and screw post (Type 2).

I feel that there are potentially more variations, and concede that possibly their is some private made stuff (I posted a pic some time back of Sousa's baton, which has a jeweler constructed 1892 looking piece on top of it). The piece to start this thread, is not one of those. You can plainly see that it is either painted silver or flashed.

Mike

#32 usmcaviator

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Posted 27 November 2009 - 03:19 AM

This is the only known "jeweler quality" 1892 piece that I know of, it adorns the top of a presentation baton given to John Sousa in 1892. The mere fact that the 1892 helmet EGA is so large, a true silver and gold piece, like this one, would have been very expensive to make. I think this piece may have been what the maker of the one in question was trying to emulate.
(BROKEN LINK REMOVED)


Edited by Brig, 14 May 2014 - 01:33 PM.


#33 Brig

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Posted 27 November 2009 - 12:07 PM

what about that piece I posted? I wasn't the winner, was wondering about it though

#34 Leatherneck72

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Posted 27 November 2009 - 12:53 PM

what about that piece I posted? I wasn't the winner, was wondering about it though


Brig,

The piece you posted is a genuine example. It had been painted gold, and also had pink candle wax on the back. It all came off with various solutions to reveal most of the original gold gilt. The screw post was broke off near the attachment point, but overall, it is a nice example. I will post a pic later today.

#35 usmcaviator

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Posted 27 November 2009 - 01:29 PM

Brig,

The piece you posted is a genuine example. It had been painted gold, and also had pink candle wax on the back. It all came off with various solutions to reveal most of the original gold gilt. The screw post was broke off near the attachment point, but overall, it is a nice example. I will post a pic later today.

Hey bro,
I didn't know you picked that one up. Cleaned up OK huh?
Mike

#36 Leatherneck72

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Posted 27 November 2009 - 04:09 PM

Hey bro,
I didn't know you picked that one up. Cleaned up OK huh?
Mike



Here it is without the paint on it...

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#37 Leatherneck72

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Posted 27 November 2009 - 04:12 PM

Here it is without the paint on it...


Detailed pic of the eagle...

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#38 Brig

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Posted 27 November 2009 - 05:43 PM

I thought that was the red polishing wax...but got tied up and unable to place a larger bid, I think I may have placed a play bid but can't recall...with old items like this, authenticity is always shakey since I rarely get to handle the real deal.

you got a steal. nice cleanup. I'll have to wait some more for another to turn up

#39 hmm161-78/82

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Posted 27 November 2009 - 06:13 PM

Dan,
The wings on your helmet plate reminds me of wings on the eagles of Imperial German spike helmet plates. Just a casual observation on my part.

#40 Leatherneck72

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Posted 27 November 2009 - 07:22 PM

I thought that was the red polishing wax...but got tied up and unable to place a larger bid, I think I may have placed a play bid but can't recall...with old items like this, authenticity is always shakey since I rarely get to handle the real deal.

you got a steal. nice cleanup. I'll have to wait some more for another to turn up


Because of the size they look nice in a riker display, but I think they look great on the helmets as well.

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#41 Brig

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 04:33 PM

here's another eBay award winner...

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#42 Leatherneck72

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 10:55 AM

here's another eBay award winner...



Been artifically aged with a chemical.

#43 Brig

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 02:37 PM

looks like a lighter...

#44 usmcaviator

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 11:20 PM

looks like a lighter...

This aging is commonly seen with ammonia (green brown) aging, often times a urine or horse dung bath!

#45 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 10:40 AM

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