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Spike Helmet EGA

Started by shrapneldude , Nov 22 2009 04:31 PM

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#1 shrapneldude

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 04:31 PM

Ok...
This came in my last big trade batch of Marine stuff.

No idea if it's real or not, but a few things it has going for it...
I haven't found a similar example posted anywhere as a "fake" or "Fantasy" piece, so if it is one, there were pretty limited numbers of them.

It's got some honest age to it, and it's thick...sturdy...not thin and tinny like some of the Bannerman types out there. It's also got a Hallmark I haven't been able to track down.

It's much bigger than a standard size EGA as well.

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#2 shrapneldude

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 04:32 PM

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#3 Bugme

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 04:54 PM

I'm no EGA expert and would never assume anything different. However, that hallmark looks suspiciously like a Third Reich proof mark found on TR era items such a this bayonet handle for a K98 Mauser.

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Edited by Bugme, 22 November 2009 - 05:04 PM.


#4 shrapneldude

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 05:08 PM

I'm no EGA expert and would never assume anything different. However, that hallmark looks suspiciously like a Third Reich proof mark found on TR era items such a this bayonet handle for a K98 Mauser.



Interesting...that would explain why I didn't find it on any of my US sources.
Hmmm...so was this EGA produced in Germany in the early part of the century...or produced much later and a fake hallmark was added?

:think:

#5 normaninvasion

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 05:14 PM

Would it be possible to show some close ups of the feather and beak details? thanks jeff

#6 shrapneldude

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 05:41 PM

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#7 shrapneldude

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 05:42 PM

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#8 normaninvasion

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 07:23 AM

Thanks for the close ups, from the little I know the details really matter when viewing these. Hopefully the experts will take a shot.

#9 Bob Hudson

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 07:34 AM

I think the best indication of authenticity will come when someone PM's you with an offer to buy it :)

#10 Bob Hudson

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 07:59 AM

We do have another thread where a forum member who owns a real one of these gives some tips about them (saf=dly he deleted the photos that went with this text):

I have only seen a handful of originals of the 1892 officer version EGA for the spiked helmet. Some tips to originals are 1. The lower anchor fluke is not attached to the globe. 2. The eagle's mouth is cut-out and open, not solid. 3. The rope sits higher and has finer detail, there are more ridges and are they are well defined. 4. The latitude lines on the globe curve upward north of the equator and downward south of the equator. There are also differences in the detail to the feathers and the guide pins on the rear of the eagle's wings. It is realtively easy to tell the fakes, but they still will bring a few hundred on E-bay by those who don't know. This piece appears to be made identical to the enlisted version. Even though regs called for the piece to be struck from solid silver, and most Officer's devices were made from multiple pieces, the 1892 wasn't. The piece is a standard brass or bronze enlisted EGA that has entirely been flashed or coated in sterling silver. The continents anchor and rope were then flashed or coated gold. You can see where the process by the jeweler to flash it gold spilled over onto the silver flash

#11 Bob Hudson

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 08:57 AM

On worthpoint.com I found a 2007 sale for one of these:


RARE USMC P1892 EGA for M1881 Indian War Spiked Helmet

Sold For: $ 810.00

Sold Date: 03/25/2007
Channel: Online Auction
Source: eBay
Category: Natural History

You will see 100 of the crummy fake ones for every one of these you see. This is a real Pattern 1892 Enlisted Eagle Globe and Anchor for the enlisted man's 1881 spiked helmet. This has the open beak, curved lines of latitude, and cut away anchor fluke from the globe. This is a rare second pattern conversion by having the screw post cut and addition of prongs to make it a prong back. The conversion was period turn-of-the-century done and probably done by the maker. This EGA retains about 85-90% of its gold wash and is a stunning piece. If you collect EGAs, this is a centerpiece that you need to own. It measures 3-1/2" in wingspan and the same tall. This is not a cheap piece. The photo is for reference only to a show this piece in period wear, and is not for sale.





Now here is another - with a photo - that has the closed mouth. I assume it's a repro, but it still sold for over $200 a while back:

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ORIG USMC EGA EMBLEM FROM 1898 MARINE SPIKE HELMET

Sold For: $ 212.50

Sold Date: 11/21/2007
Channel: Online Auction
Source: eBay
Category: Natural History

Beautiful and Original 1898 era USMC ega emblem from span-am war marine corps enlisted mans dress spike helmet. This badge is right out of a OLD navy and marine collection we are selling and is 100% original and it is in excellent condtion and complete with the attaching screw nuts on the back.



And one more I found on Worthpoint:

82ega.jpg


Original Large EGA for USMC P1892 Spike Dress Helmet

Sold For: $ 400.00

Sold Date: 06/04/2007
Channel: Online Auction
Source: eBay
Category: Natural History

This is a rare, original US Marine Corps 3 1/2" X 3 3/8" Pattern 1892-1904, enlisted eagle globe and anchor emblem for the felt spike helmet. This is a very large and attractive emblem, with very finely detailed feathering on the wings. It has much of the bright gold, original "Quartermaster" finish, with a few patches of light age darkening on the globe. It is more of a golden color than it appears in my photo. This is the earlier of two versions of this EGA. This one had wire loops soldered on the rear. Around 1895, a version was introduced with a screw post and nut. The four brass wire attachment loops have been removed, leaving the age-darkened solder. This EGA has been in my personal collection for about 20 years, and I guarantee that it is original and as described.


I think our EGA reference section's place for these EGA's is empty so we'll have to move some of this to there at a later date.

#12 shrapneldude

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 10:48 AM

I think the best indication of authenticity will come when someone PM's you with an offer to buy it :)


How right you were! haha

Thanks for the additional photos and such. Would like to say for the record, it's not my intention to SELL this item at this time. It is Marine Corps, and will stay in the collection. That said, I suppose if someone offered me some really wild Marine Corps items in trade, It wouldn't be too terribly hard for me to part with this.

In any case, I guess I'm satisfied now that this is a legit piece and not one of the fantasy / repro items floating around out there. It doesn't look half as sloppy as the "closed mouth" ones and definitely has greater detail, care, and quality shown in the construction. As I've not been able to find any photos of a known good piece like this, it would make a good addition to the EGA ref. section.

#13 Bob Hudson

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 11:19 AM

How right you were! haha

Thanks for the additional photos and such. Would like to say for the record, it's not my intention to SELL this item at this time. It is Marine Corps, and will stay in the collection. That said, I suppose if someone offered me some really wild Marine Corps items in trade, It wouldn't be too terribly hard for me to part with this.


Keep in mind that the one which sold for $810 more than two-and-a-half years ago was for certain a real one (I know who the seller was) and I would not be surprised to see an EGA collector offering twice that for yours. Scarce EGA's do well even in today's market.

But, yes, if this was not the real thing you should have heard about it by now: our forum members are not shy about that sort of thing.

#14 Brig

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 12:34 PM

this sold for 198 on eBay...had been meaning to post it for discussion...

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#15 Brig

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 12:35 PM

reverse

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#16 Leatherneck72

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 10:02 PM

Repo that has had a rope added to it. Looks nice, but missing some things that make them real.

#17 usmcaviator

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 11:33 PM

Agreed, it has spurious marks (that is a German Waffenampt, kinda funny!), and the globe pattern is a known reproduction. I have not seen one without a molded anchor chain for some time, this leads me to believe that it is an older strike with a chain added.
Mike

Oh, forgot to add, the fact that it is heavy also leads to the earlier restrike. The originals are "tinny" feeling.

Edited by usmcaviator, 23 November 2009 - 11:37 PM.


#18 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 02:44 AM

Repo that has had a rope added to it. Looks nice, but missing some things that make them real.


Brian, interesting observation for sure. Care to share with us photo's of one of your Officer emblems and point out the subtle things that are missing so we can all "get educated" s/f Darrell

#19 shrapneldude

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 07:19 AM

I'll be sure to take a hammer to it today after lunch then. Thanks all for the help! IF anyone has a photo of what a REAL one looks like for comparison, I'd dearly love to see it. Seems whenever I get a neat piece in, there's no shortage of images on the interwebs of photos of fake EGAs and none of the real thing, and that makes it very difficult to authenticate.

Edited by shrapneldude, 24 November 2009 - 07:20 AM.


#20 Bugme

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 08:43 AM

I did a little research on the proof mark seen on this EGA just to solidify what's already been said. The Waffenampt(German Army Weapons Agency) was founded in 1919, I wanted to make sure of the Waffenampt: "WaA" stamp designation with stylized eagle was not used before the rise of the Third Reich. It appears that the "WaA" was only used from 1934 to the end of WWII by the Third Reich. Again, EGA's are not my forte but, I'm pretty sure that Nazi Germany was not making EGA's for the Marines.


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